Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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I believe that we, the Department and the Minister should refuse to grant licences for the upcoming hare coursing season. It will come as no surprise to anyone that I am strongly opposed to hare coursing. I am strongly opposed from an animal welfare perspective and also from the perspective of the protection of our biodiversity. The hare is a protected species under the Wildlife Acts. I recently introduced legislation that would prevent the Minister from issuing licences under that Act for the capture of hares for the purpose of hare coursing.

I am not alone in my opposition to hare coursing. In fact, only 9% of the population agrees with hare coursing, according to a RED C poll conducted a number of years ago. It has been reported that both line Ministers, the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, and the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, are both opposed to hare coursing. That raises the question why we still allow hare coursing, who is making these decisions and why they are being made.

I am pleased that the Minister of State, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, is taking this issue. This is not her area but she has a legal background. I raise the licences that are issued for the purpose of capturing hares for hare coursing and whether it is possible for any club to adhere to the licence conditions as they are currently written. It is possible that all clubs have to this point been operating outside the conditions of that licence. Under section 38, the licence grants the Irish Coursing Club, ICC, a licence to capture live hares subject to the conditions specified. Condition No. 10 specifies, "Injured or pregnant hares shall not be taken under the licence." Absolutely and categorically, no pregnant hares shall be taken under the licence. I do not believe it is possible for anyone to determine whether a hare is pregnant upon capture. We are getting into the specifics of animal biology here but female hares have a gestation period of 50 days. They can have three litters, which means they are probably pregnant for half the year. It would be nearly impossible to determine during early pregnancy whether a hare is pregnant.

In its guidance, the ICC states, "any hare which is obviously pregnant, shall not be coursed and shall be released back to the wild". The licence condition does not state "obviously pregnant". It categorically states "pregnant". There is no possible way that any club would have the capacity to determine whether a hare is pregnant. Any female hare that is captured could be pregnant without anyone understanding or knowing it and, therefore, I believe the majority of clubs are operating outside the terms of that licence. In light of that fact, I ask the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to review the licence and not to issue licences for the upcoming year because there needs to be an examination of the situation and the terminology used. I ask the Minister of State to consider the matter.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I have a policy on never commenting on somebody, whether they look pregnant or not. Even if they are close to giving birth, I still never comment and leave it as a matter for themselves. Of course, one can never tell the state of another person's pregnancy. I am not trying to be facetious in any way. The Deputy has raised an interesting analysis of the licence application and the Act. I am not in a position to make any sort of legal determination or adjudication on the issue but she has taken an unusually interesting angle on the issue. She has said that the licence conditions refer to hares that are pregnant. A person or a hare is either pregnant or not in the same way they are dead or not. There is no ambiguity in the matter. This raises important questions for licensing.

I am instructed by the Department to reply that regulated hare coursing is administered by the ICC, as the Deputy will be aware. As I am sure she will be also aware, statutory responsibility for the Greyhound Industry Act resides with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Licences are required by the ICC under the terms of the Wildlife Acts on behalf of their affiliated clubs to facilitate the capture of hares. Regulated coursing meetings take place during the open season dates between 26 September and end of February of the following year.

The ICC applies to the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage on an annual basis for each of the aforementioned licences. Where licences are approved by the Minister, the conditions of same are set out and communicated with the ICC, as the Deputy has set out. Regional officers of the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, attend coursing meetings, as resources allow, to monitor compliance with the conditions of the licenses. I am not sure how they assess the matter the Deputy has raised. Did I heard her correctly stating that the matter in question falls under section 10 of the licence?

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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It is under condition No. 10.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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It is under condition No. 10. In the most recent season, NPWS officials monitored some or all elements of 30 of the meetings held to ensure compliance with the agreed conditions. Veterinary staff from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine also carry out inspections during the coursing season to monitor compliance with the rules governing animal welfare relating to greyhounds and hares.

The ICC submits various reports to the NPWS as required by the conditions of the licences, including control steward reports on the operation of coursing meetings, veterinary reports and hare capture and release reports.

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Under the licence, what those involved in coursing are required to produce is information on when the hares were captured, the number of hares captured, if they were injured and whether veterinary care was required.

They are not required ascertain the sex of the hare. In all the details contained in the reports, I cannot see any reference to male or female. I went through 20 reports of hare coursing clubs. In any of those reports which account for probably close to 1,000 hare captures, I cannot see anywhere where they state that a female hare was deemed to be pregnant and released. Considering that there are 1,000 hares captured and the sex ratio is 50:50, and that a female hare is usually consistently pregnant or lactating, it is bizarre that there is no record of any hares being released in that regard.

This is an unusual angle, but the coursing entities have been operating outside - it has been impossible to operate within - the terms and conditions that have been set for them. I am not saying that it is on them but they have been operating outside the terms of that licence. In light of that, I ask that the licence for the upcoming season be refused until the Minister can carry out an analysis of those conditions and whether or not it is possible to be in compliance with them.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy says, it is an unusual angle, but it remains eminently fair. It is a condition that is set out by another party. As the Deputy stated, she went through the records and not only could she not find evidence of whether hares were identified as male or female, she also - I do not mean this to be funny - could not find evidence of whether the pregnancy status or otherwise of female hares was established. Therefore, there are two subsets of analysis that have not been completed. If it is a condition, one would expect that there would be some analysis in relation to compliance or otherwise with, as the Deputy says, condition 10. This is an important matter. Deputy Whitmore's commitment to animal welfare is shown by the extent of the investigations she has undertaken. I appreciate that anybody looking in on these proceedings could take a wry view, but it is a serious matter. I appreciate what the Deputy is saying.

The licence for the upcoming 2023-24 season is under consideration at present. The Deputy's views, alongside those interested stakeholders and parties, will be included in the deliberations relating to the licence.

The National Parks and Wildlife Service has commenced a major project to review and update wildlife legislation. As the Deputy will be aware, it is a multiyear project. It is looking at every facet of our wildlife legislation, including the Acts, European Union regulations and related statutory instrument. In excess of 200 issues have been identified so far. Each of those will need to be examined and worked through more closely as the project develops. It will involve several phases of public consultation. The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage expects the first phase of formal consultations to commence later this year.

The Department, I am informed, would welcome the Deputy's input into this review. It would be valuable because if we are to set conditions, we have to be serious about them. If we are not to test the analysis against it, whether or not the pregnancy status or otherwise of the hares is tested for is a different issue. We should either not set the condition or set it and monitor it. However ,we have to be serious about the matter.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It occurs to me, without having a position one way or the other on this, that this is something Deputy Whitmore should bring back to the House in September or October when, presumably, the necessary studies will have been completed. I do not know if we have ultrasound for hares-----

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Pregnancy tests.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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-----but whatever needs to be done should be done.

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Apparently, it is ultrasounds one would need.

Jennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Ultrasounds.

Jennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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Yes.