Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I will be very brief. I appreciate that the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, is not the line Minister and is taking this matter on behalf of others. I have been contacted by former An Post workers who are pensioners who tell me that, in March of this year, the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, the Communications Workers' Union, CWU, An Post and the Government reached agreement on an increase of 5%, to be backdated to 1 January 2022, with a further 2% from 1 January 2023 and 1% from 1 July 2023. I am told by the people who have contacted me that no payment has been made since the agreement was reached. I am also told the payment only requires a ministerial signature from whichever line Minister is responsible. In this case I assume it is the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, Deputy Ryan, and the Minister for Finance, Deputy McGrath. All we are advocating for here is on behalf of those who are on meagre pensions and who have now an entitlement by virtue of the agreement that was reached. The simple question is when they will be paid.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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These payments are now delayed and they need to be paid. They speak to a fundamental systematic problem with how this pension is being run. This dates back to section 46 of the Postal and Telecommunications Services Act 1983. Back then, the workers were Civil Servants. The terms of this Act were to ensure that it was a clear wish that all sides if necessary should guarantee transferred staff that their tenure of office and security of employment would be as good, strong and safe as in their present Civil Service capacity and that the terms of their pension would never be less than the Civil Service pension, that they should always be benchmarked against that. That is in the 1983 Act. Therefore, any worker who divested on the divestment date of 31 December 1983 should be protected. The superannuation scheme itself came into being in 1990. Since then, even though the Act itself has been amended over 100 times, nothing has diminished what section 46 says, which is that the pensions of the workers should not be less than a Civil Service pension and workers should not be treated any less favourably than their entitlement by reference to the Civil Service regulations that were enforced on 31 December 1983.

There has been advice from Attorneys General on this. There has been ombudsman commentary on this. There has been independent legal advice on this. These workers, who are now pensioners, are being left behind in an inflation and cost-of-living crisis. They are on low, fixed incomes. They are not entitled to a State pension due to the terms of their pension. Therefore, these workers do not get any double payments or any measures that the Government has brought in through the social protection system. They do not get those benefits. This is a structural problem which should be resolved and the Minister has the power to do it.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I want to thank both Deputies Sherlock and Duncan Smith for raising this matter, which I will take on behalf of the Minister for Climate, Environment and Communications, Deputy Eamon Ryan.

I want to outline the position on this matter, which deals with the current increases that are formally due. Under section 46 of the Postal and Telecommunications Services Act 1983, the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, with the concurrence of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, approves any superannuation schemes that are submitted by An Post. The operation of the schemes is a matter between the management of An Post, staff representatives and the trustees of the schemes.

As Deputy Sherlock stated, on 9 March 2023, An Post wrote to the Department seeking consent to the second phase of their current pay agreement which provides for a 2% increase in pay from 1 January 2023. In addition to this, on foot of a recent Labour Court decision, An Post wrote to the Department on 9 March seeking approval to make increases to pensions in payment and deferred pensions of a 5% increase from 1 January 2022 and a 1% increase from 1 July 2023.

In addition to the requests that I have referenced, An Post also wrote to the Department on 20 June 2023 seeking approval to increase pensions in payment for members of the An Post superannuation scheme who are aligned to the Principal Officer, PO, grade in the Civil Service.

In accordance with the relevant code of practice from the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, An Post must seek ministerial approval to increase pensions, as the Deputies have both stated, for deferred pensions for members of the An Post superannuation scheme. As per circular 16/2021, all such proposals require the view of New Era, as well as a business case setting out the strategic policy and financial rationale of proposed increases. Circular 16/2021 states that pension approval requests should be submitted for approval well in advance of any decision to implement changes and acknowledgement of the necessary process that must be completed. In order to ensure that pension increases are not unduly delayed, it should be recognised that the time taken for the pension approval process is necessary to ensure that robust governance procedures are in place.

Following receipt on 9 March, An Post's request to the Department of Environment, Climate and Communications, the standard process is now being followed with New Era’s views and an assessment by the officials being required prior to the consent of both Ministers being sought. The most recent request on 20 June has also been forwarded to New Era. This is the same procedure that must be followed by any State body. Consideration of the consent request of 9 March is well advanced and a report from New Era is expected shortly. It is not possible at this point to specify a timeframe within which this decision-making process will be concluded. However, the Deputies are raising points on behalf of the An Post pensioners. It is a matter I will take back to the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan. I will ask that the matter be given full consideration in terms of looking at having these payments made as quickly as possible.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I appreciate the fact that the Minister of State, Deputy Kieran O’Donnell, is taking this matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan. I think the answer, with respect to the Minister of State, is inadequate because it does not give a definitive timeline for which those monies will be paid. Ministerial approval is the benchmark here. That is the yardstick. That is the point that we need to get to. I understand that consents have to be sought and I understand that there is a process with New Era. However, we are not talking about thousands of people here. We are talking about a small cohort of people. In terms of the State, the Departments and the Government, this requires ministerial intervention at senior Cabinet level. I ask for that to be done.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. Again, I agree there is an inadequacy to it. I also will need to take back the information, which is new to me, about how An Post wrote to the Department for the superannuation scheme to be aligned with the PO grade in the Civil Service. I just want to go back and have a look at that. While New Era and the Department of Environment, Climate and Communications etc. may be reviewing these requests, they have ultimately to be bound by section 46 of the Act. This discretion has been applied by the Minister to pension increases when they should always be pegged against section 46 and on terms that are not less favourable than Civil Service terms. That has not been done. That is a structural problem that underpins the problem we are raising here.

We have a pension problem in this country. It is not a time bomb coming down the road; it is here right now. There are pensioners who are on low fixed incomes now who cannot afford to get by. Age Action, the National Women's Council, Active Retirement and SIPTU yesterday launched the Pension Promise campaign. It is right throughout society. The An Post workers are another aspect of that. I ask the Minister to come back with a real resolution to this.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputies Sherlock and Duncan Smith for raising these matters on behalf of the An Post pensioners. They will appreciate that there is a process. New Era is part of that process, and the issue is currently with New Era. However, I do take their point that this process should be concluded as quickly as possible. I undertake to go back to the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, to make that point. I suggest that the Deputies would follow up directly with the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, themselves as Members of the House.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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With all due respect to the Minister of State, one would expect that if he is to address the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, then the Minister, Deputy Ryan, would respond. I say this with respect to the Minister of State.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I was trying to be helpful to colleagues. I appreciate there is frustration on the part of the pensioners. However, there is a process there. The point that Deputy Duncan Smith raises about section 46 is a matter that I am not hugely familiar with. However, it is a matter I will take back to the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, as well.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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The next Topical Issue is not in a position to proceed, but we will wait for a few minutes just in case.