Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, not just for being here to take this matter but also for liaising with my office when he could not be here on a previous occasion when the issue was discussed. This arises out of a question I raised directly with the Taoiseach during Questions on Promised Legislation in regard to after-school care for children with additional needs. The norm for most families is to avail of childcare to facilitate not just the parents going to work, which it does, but also to facilitate the child to develop, socialise and do all the good stuff we want to see happening. I raised this issue following a query to my constituency office. It was only when that query was raised that a whole rake of other questions started to come in. It seems this is an issue for a lot of families.

The parents in question were sent to the HSE, which sent them to the special educational needs organiser, SENO. The SENO then sent them back to the HSE. Seeking clarity, I raised the issue with the Taoiseach. His response was:

The Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, informs me that this [provision] is available in CHO 9 but perhaps not in all parts of the country. I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, to come back to the Deputy on the matter directly.

I responded that CHO 9 is my area and I am aware the provision is not available. I subsequently corresponded with the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, and submitted the matter for discussion as a Topical Issue. It was given to the Department of the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman. The Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, has not come back to me as yet but I understand the matter is now with the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. That is fine.

The Minister will be in receipt of a letter from constituents of mine. I want to be careful not to identify them because parents of children with additional needs have to go through enough, tell enough about their lives and put enough of their personal information into the public domain. However, I will read out a couple of lines from their correspondence that jumped out at me. They wrote: "When you are the parent of a child with additional needs, you find yourself only being able to access scraps and the bare minimum and having to be grateful for them." The parent in this instance quotes from the National Quality Guidelines for School Age Childcare Services as follows:

Equality involves a commitment to positive experiences for all children irrespective of their... disability, birth or other status. To achieve this, different groups may need additional supports.

Children will have the support of a special needs assistant, SNA, if they are in a mainstream school or special school. They will have the SNA support that is tied to the school. That care will be provided for more hours in a secondary school but will stop at a certain point for children in primary school. That is grand if the parents can get full-time wages for finishing work at 1 p.m. Most people cannot do so. They should not have to face a situation whereby one of them will either have to change to part-time work, if it is available, or give up work altogether. Neither is an option for most people.

The parent in this case says she cannot send her child to a typical summer camp outside of her crèche as there are no camps that cater for children with additional needs. She has been in contact with the children's disability network team, CDNT, the SENO and the HSE but she cannot get a straight answer. Surely information on the different types of supports should be readily available. School-age childcare is a necessity for many families and a positive support for many children. I want to emphasise this is not just an issue around childcare. It is also an issue around socialisation and development for children. As the Minister knows and appreciates, parents of children with additional needs have to fight for everything. They have to live in a world in which their children are excluded from a lot of activities. It is not acceptable that children, because they have additional needs, have a vastly different experience of school from that of all other children.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy for the opportunity to answer the question she has raised. A key objective of my Department is to ensure early learning and care provision promotes the participation of all children. To that end, the Department has taken steps to integrate additional supports and services for children and families with additional needs. The access and inclusion model, AIM, which was introduced in 2016, provides a suite of supports to ensure children with a disability can meaningfully participate in, and reap the benefits of, the early childhood care and education, ECCE, programme.

AIM provides both targeted and universal supports. The latter are designed to create a more inclusive culture in early learning and care settings through the provision of training courses and qualifications for staff. The targeted supports can include, depending on children's individual needs, specialist equipment and funding for extra staff or reduced ratios. The application process for these supports is very simple and is not dependent on a diagnosis or anything like that. Parents are advised to speak to their provider, which will make an application for targeted supports in collaboration with the parents. The provider will submit the application on the parents' behalf to Better Start, which is the body responsible for the administration of AIM. In line with emerging best practice to support the integration and independence of children with a disability, we do not call the workers involved "SNAs" in this context. Instead, they are called AIM level 7 workers. They can be deployed to reduce the ratio within a setting or provide direct support to individual children within a setting. They must have the same qualifications as other childcare workers in that particular setting, namely, a minimum of a level 5 qualification in childcare. AIM has been extremely successful in supporting thousands of children to access the ECCE programme. Currently, there are more than 7,200 children receiving targeted supports within AIM.

The restriction under AIM is that it is designed for the two years of care provided under the ECCE programme. As I said, it is working very well. First 5, the Government's strategy for children under five, has committed to extending AIM further. It is a model that works. I am looking, in next year's budget and future budgets, to grow AIM and allow it to apply to wider cohorts of children. I hope we can expand it to after-school care provision. It is resource-dependent. Allowing more children to access it, whether by way of enhanced hours after their ECCE hours are over or via access to the wider national childcare scheme, NCS, and after-school provision, is a key objective of my Department. AIM has been proven to offer the right set of supports to deliver the ECCE provision. I am looking to grow it but it will take a number of budgetary cycles before children of all age groups, across both early years and after-school provision, have full access to AIM.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for his response. I am a big supporter of AIM. Its objectives are very worthwhile.

These parents, however, are facing a cliff edge, and they are not the only ones. There are quite a number of them in my area. They are facing a cliff edge in July. Their children, effectively, will be excluded from access to summer camps, to after-school activities, and to after-school support. The parents are facing a very tough decision. We are in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis. Having two incomes coming into the household is now necessary. Many families - as the Minister will know - are having to face a situation where the parents are paying out of their own pocket for additional supports for their kids through the private sector. If a family has to face the decision of one parent potentially having to give up work or trying to find money for a childminder, it goes against the AIM objectives. The Minister and his Department say that diversity and inclusion is a good thing but it is not a possible thing for children with additional needs if they are effectively locked out.

I ask the Minister a question directly in relation to this. The Minister will have received the letter. I am aware the Minister gets a huge volume of correspondence and I do not expect that he would have read all of it, but he will be aware of the situation. What do I say to these parents now with 1 July coming? That is when they have to make a very tough decision. All they want for their kids is the same as any of us want for the children in our lives: that they thrive and live their best life. To fulfil the mandate of the Minister's own Department, it means that different groups may need additional supports. These people need additional supports and their kids need additional supports.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy. I am acutely aware of the cost-of-living crises that many families face. This is why in last year's budget I was able to get a very significant investment to cut childcare costs for all parents, at an average of 25%. This is why in next year's budget I am looking specifically to extend that out to childminders. The Deputy also raised this issue with regard to the significant number of parents who use childminders and are not able to avail of the NCS for that childcare provision at the moment. Perhaps after the session here, the Deputy might give me the names of the individuals in question and tomorrow I will make sure to look up the specific correspondence. I will look to see what advice or supports are available there under the existing structures.

The situation as described by the Deputy is a combination of elements. After-school care as we know it is provided in a childcare facility. Whether that is something that can be done there, or can be extended out to summer camp that is not necessarily provided in a setting supported by my Department, just adds an extra complexity there. I will need to study the specific issue. We are aware that additional supports are needed to support children to access early years programmes, be it the ECCE scheme and the really good AIM scheme. As I have said, I want to grow AIM. I want AIM applying to more children across a wider cohort, from younger children to older children and in after-school supports. I am conscious that AIM is an expensive programme, and it should be because it is providing supports. It is something that will probably have to be done on a step-by-step basis. I believe that I have demonstrated over the last number of years that I have secured increased investment in childcare, supporting parents, children, workers and providers. I look to continue to do that in budget 2024. Perhaps the Deputy will let me know the name of that family.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I will. I thank the Minister.