Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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93. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if his Department and third-level colleges have engaged with the HSE and the Department of Health with a view to increasing the number of radiation therapy training places, taking into account that there are only 42 places at present; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26602/23]

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I want to raise the issue of radiation therapist training. I am wondering if the Department has engaged with third-level colleges, the HSE and the Department of Health with a view to increasing the number of places. Currently, there are only 30 places per annum available in Trinity and 12 places in Cork. There are 42 in total. It is not adequate. I am wondering what level of engagement has occurred as regards increasing the number of training places available.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Colm Burke for this important question. I assure the Deputy at the outset that significant engagement is ongoing between my Department, the Department of Health, the Higher Education Authority, HEA, and the higher education sector to develop a joined-up approach to address system-level demand in health care disciplines, including radiation therapy. We are trying to move beyond the scramble in response to the request to provide them with a few extra places in September to determine how many, in each therapy post, should Ireland need to be training. For instance, how many nurses, doctors, speech and language therapists and, specifically in relation to this question, radiation therapists a year do we need to train?

Healthcare programmes, as Deputy Colm Burke will be aware, are complex in delivery. There are fundamental issues, some of which are in the control of the health sector. Others are in the control of the college. We can create a college place and the health sector obviously needs to be in a position to create a matching clinical placement. Issues such as guarantee of clinical placements, detailed and robust workforce planning projections and engagement with regulators are key. In addition to qualifying additional health professionals, as, of course, training them is one thing, the health sector successfully recruiting and retaining them will also be key.

In the middle of last year, my Department established a working group to identify and address barriers to expansion in the health and social care professions, including radiation therapy. I am pleased to say the working group included representatives from my Department, the Department of Health, the HSE, CORU and the higher education sector. The group is looking at incremental expansion from September 2023. In other words, can we do anything quickly? There is space to provide a modest increase this year. Crucially, it is looking at whether, from September 2024, and 2025 and 2026, we can do a lot more in terms of a really big step-change in terms of the number of people we train each year to work in the health service, including in the area of radiation therapy.

I understand that the HSE is developing a framework for practice placement education. I understand that the Department of Health has recently appointed a health and social care profession, HSCP, officer to lead on enabling expansion in health and social care professions. The appointment of that person, along with now having a chief medical officer, CMO, and a chief nursing officer, CNO, is very good news.

Officials from my Department are engaging with higher education institutions to ascertain expansion on existing programmes from this year, including radiation therapy, but crucially to try and have that multi-annual plan for the next number of years.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I understand there are four treatment machines currently idle because there is a shortfall of 34% in the number of radiation therapist. There was also a survey done which indicates that over 60% of the current radiation therapists intend leaving within the next five years.

As regards funding for postgraduates, those who have already got a primary degree and want to go on to do radiation therapy, I understand there is no funding for them to do that course.

Currently, Cork has 12 postgraduate places. It is a two-year course. Therefore, one is fast-tracking the qualification. If we can expand that, but also give funding and grants to those who take on that course because I understand it is not available at present, it would be one way of expediting the system.

Trinity provides a four-year course with 30 places per annum. Therefore, there is a total of 42 places.

We have a huge challenge now. It is something that we need to give priority to, in particular when we have radiation machines lying idle because we do not have the required number of radiation therapists.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I find myself in agreement with Deputy Colm Burke. We need to be training more people to work in the health service. We need to be specifically training more people to work in areas including the one the Deputy has mentioned around radiation therapy, but we need to do it in a manner that works. We need to do it in a way that is not ad hoc. We need to do it in a way that is grounded in the overall work of the health service, the issue around clinical placements and the issue around workforce planning projections.

I thank my Department, the Department of Health, the HSE, CORU, the HEA and the higher education institutions. They have been doing a really good piece of work. I am proud of the work that they have done to determine what could health service places in colleges look like over the next number of years and what could we get done between now and September.

I think we could see modest increases in some areas including radiation therapy, as well as larger increases in other areas in health this year. From September 2024, however, there is the potential to do a lot more, and the Minister for Health and I are working together to finalise this. I hope to be in a position this month to update the Cabinet and then publish what that will look like.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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In regard to the issue I raised about grants, there is a disincentive in that the grant is available for taking some postgraduate courses, whereas it is not available for studying radiation therapy. Will the Minister look at that? It is one of the key issues as regards why people are not attracted to the course.

Furthermore, can we expand the number of postgraduate courses in September? This relates to a two-year course, so even we do that, it will be two years before new people come on stream, in addition to the number doing so each year at the moment.

Mairead Farrell (Galway West, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the tabling of this question by Deputy Burke. We need to do everything in our power to expand the number of courses. What the Aire mentioned regarding placements is the crux of the issue and goes across the medical profession. It has been raised with me since I took on this brief. One issue that keeps coming to the fore relates to the fact the putting together of the placements is often done on an ad hocbasis. Individual institutions may have a deal with a hospital, but it makes it more difficult when it is not done on a streamlined basis in the way it is done for pharmacies through the Irish Pharmacy Union, IPU. Has the Minister considered providing placements through the Department of Health on a more streamlined basis?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The short answer to Deputy Farrell's question is "Yes, absolutely". We need to move beyond the year to year and look at how we can systemically create a better structure that works for the health service, the higher education institutions and students. If we get this right, the prize can be significant, with a large expansion of third level education in health and social care services. That is a prize worth getting right and I hope to update the Government with the Minister, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, on that this month.

To Deputy Colm Burke's question on postgraduate funding, I will look at that because I am not sure as to how or why that anomaly arises, but I will be happy to revert to him directly on it. The note with which I have been provided tells me there are between 25 and 35 students in each year of the bachelor of science degree in radiation therapy at Trinity College Dublin. In addition to that, there are 15 students in University College Cork master's programme in radiation therapy. If Deputy Burke is asking me whether we intend to grow the number of places in radiation therapy at third level, the answer is "Yes". We intend to grow it to some extent this year and to move significantly beyond that in 2024 and thereafter.