Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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11. To ask the Minister for Health if he will provide an update on the progress made with regard to the pay parity claim by medical scientists, one year after they suspended their industrial action; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26661/23]

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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We are just over a year on from when the Medical Laboratory Scientists Association, MLSA, suspended its industrial action to return to talks. Can the Minister provide an update on the progress made with regard to the medical laboratory scientists' long-standing pay parity claim?

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I can. I acknowledge the dedication, professionalism and commitment of our medical scientists all across the country. As the Deputy says, we are a year on now since the MLSA engaged in two days of industrial action on 18 and 24 May of last year. That was for their claim for pay parity between medical scientists and clinical biochemists. I am very happy to report that important open engagement has continued between health management and the MLSA since this time without industrial action being initiated again. I commend the representative body, the medical scientists and the HSE on making sure that has happened.

Following what I am told were very productive talks at the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, in May and June of last year, agreement was reached to conduct an independent assessment of the role, responsibilities and pay of medical laboratory scientist grades. The assessment was undertaken by an independent assessor and the final report issued in January of this year. Following the issuing of that report, the parties involved in the matter have resumed engagement to determine a way of progressing the recommendations outlined in the report. It is important to note that these recommendations may only be addressed in the context of the next public service pay agreement, which is to be negotiated later this year. Thanks to the efforts of all involved, they have a report, they have the recommendations and now they are working to see how they can be progressed through the standard pay bargaining channels.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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The recommendations from that report were most welcome. They backed up what medical scientists knew for a long time, that there was no material distinction between the work they do and the work the clinical biochemists do. This dispute is not just a year and a bit long, it is 22 years long. We have the upcoming pay discussions that this will be included in. This group of workers have been waiting a long time for this. They need support. They need to see that the Minister and his Government are supporting them and putting energy into the issue. We gave them an awful lot of platitudes, particularly during the Covid crisis, for the work they did behind the scenes in the basements of hospitals and health facilities all over the country. Now they need public support and public pressure from this House, the Government and the Minister to ensure they get their pay parity and that is done as soon as possible.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy.

I agree. The assessment and the report concluded that critically there were no material differences in qualifications and duties in responsibilities between medical scientist grades across laboratory specialists and biochemist grades. Small differences were highlighted particularly in regard to the educational requirements. The assessor gave recommendations for addressing these. The parties met again in February and in March to discuss the recommendations. Following the March meeting, the MLSA referred the matter back to the WRC.

In good news, one of the issues we all discussed at the time was that there was an anomaly and a pay discrepancy with regard to laboratory aids. It was really frustrating the medical scientists. I am happy to be able to say and that during the WRC engagement last year the parties agreed to remove the anomaly created between the maximum value of the medical laboratory aid salary scale and the basic medical scientist grade, that overlap and anomaly has been resolved.

Duncan Smith (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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It is worth pointing out that this is all happening against the backdrop of 13% of medical scientists' posts being vacant. Staff are being attracted out of the public health service. Many are going into the private sector. We have a booming pharmaceutical industry. There are many jobs outside the public health system. With morale low, the increase in demand and pressures on staff in the public health system, and the stubbornly high levels of vacancy, it is understandable how demoralised these staff continue to feel. Negotiations have been ongoing and there was a degree of positivity to those negotiations. These workers are not feeling it in terms of full laboratories, full complements of staff nor in their pay packets yet. I cannot overemphasise how demoralised these staff continue to feel at what they see as the lack of progress.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Progress is being made. The representative body has been engaging through last year. As I said, they met in February and in March. They are back into the WRC. The pay anomaly has been addressed in regard to the laboratory aids. Good progress is being made to that effect. The workforce has gone up since before the pandemic. It increased by about 7% since pre-pandemic levels which is very positive. I fully agree that we need more medical scientists working in our labs and in our hospitals. My view is we need to double the number of healthcare college places including these. The Minister, Deputy Harris, and I are working to put a very ambitious plan in place to do this. As the Deputy will be aware we recently, just in the last few weeks, appointed a chief health and social care professional officer in the Department of Health. That has been warmly welcomed for example at the Forsa conference in Galway two weeks ago. She is going to be working on exactly these kinds of issues to make sure that we are listening to and respecting these workers and making sure that they can work to the greatest extent of their training and licence.