Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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9. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality the discussions he has had with the Garda Commissioner regarding the incident where tents belonging to refugees were burned. [25167/23]

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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The Minister will agree that the burning of tents of asylum seekers on Mount Street in recent weeks is probably one of the most disgusting things we have had to witness in our recent history. Will the Minister speak to the conversations he has had with the Garda Commissioner since these events and make a statement on the matter?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Deputy Ó Ríordáin. As I said earlier, the act was vile. It disgusted our country and it is not reflection of who we are as a people or who our communities are. It is not a reflection of how this country overwhelmingly has responded to welcoming new people to our country. Deputy Ó Ríordáin and most of the House have supported many communities throughout Ireland who have demonstrated great solidarity to those who have come here, often fleeing horrific circumstances, including war and persecution. Of course there have been challenges in providing accommodation and we need to be honest about this to all those seeking protection here. We need to look at the overall context whereby we have seen an increase from just over 6,800 people being accommodated by the State to more than 80,000 people being accommodated by the State in a period of only 18 months. The Department of the Minister Deputy O'Gorman, the entire Government and civic society are working on bringing more beds on stream to house those applicants appropriately.

There has been a significant number of protests on the topic of immigration recently. There is a small minority, and let us call them for what they are, which is far-right actors and activists, whose intention is to create division and who are engaging in intimidation rather than legitimate protest. We have the right to protest, and I am sure Deputy Ó Ríordáin has attended many protests and perhaps he has been protested at. I have also experienced both. There is a very clear difference between protest and crossing the line into intimidation and endangerment. Some of the scenes that unfolded in Dublin city, where those seeking protection had their belongings set on fire and the personal safety threatened, cross well beyond the line of protest into absolutely disgusting and vile behaviour and clearly crossed the line into criminal behaviour.

I have, of course, had a number of conversations and meetings with the Garda Commissioner and I am in regular contact with him. I thank the Garda members because they are working in extraordinarily charged environments in this city and throughout the country. The Garda Commissioner is responsible for operational policing matters. There is an ongoing investigation into the specific incident Deputy Ó Ríordáin has raised and a number of other investigations also. The right to protest is enshrined in the Constitution and under our law and it is an essential part of our democracy. We should never allow the line to be blurred between protest and the disgusting scenes that we saw on Mount Street in recent weeks.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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A level of disquiet was caused when the Taoiseach remarked that we did not have enough gardaí in Dublin city centre and the Minister contradicted that statement, as did the Garda Commissioner. There is disquiet also among the public as to how this was allowed to happen and how a policed protest and counterprotest were allowed to diminish into a scenario where people's homes were set on fire. We can call them tents but these are their homes. A tent is as relevant as a house to somebody with nowhere else to live. They were set on fire.

Similarly, I have to say, with regard to the blockade that was set up in Inch in County Clare, how did gardaí not feel or see the need to remove it? We need to have a conversation about how these things are managed. I understand it is a difficult balancing act for the Garda so as not to raise tensions and make things worse. However, from an outside observation point I must ask how the situation was allowed to descend to where people felt emboldened enough to set these homes on fire and for a blockade to continue for days without any sense that gardaí would move it on.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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There is no contradiction. The country needs more gardaí and the Government is actively recruiting more gardaí with the Garda Commissioner. This is happening alongside a scenario where the Garda Commissioner says, to use his phrase, he has the operational integrity to police protests. There has been in Dublin city alone well over 125 protests, or so-called protests on occasion, in terms of anti-immigration. The overwhelming majority of them have passed off peacefully and have been policed well. On occasions things have happened that have been utterly reprehensible. It is entirely right in a democracy for Deputy Ó Ríordáin and others to come into the House and ask questions about policing. I do not take from this at all.

The only thing I would say, and in fairness Deputy Ó Ríordáin has acknowledged it, is that the Garda gets to look at the whole picture and look at things in the ground. Gardaí follow intelligence. On occasion, where appropriate, the Garda monitors the actions of anybody who may pose a risk to our community. Gardaí look at how they can de-escalate situations. In the specific situation, and I am conscious there is an ongoing investigation, my understanding is the protest was dispersed and gardaí had done a very good job, and then, unfortunately, somebody returned to the scene and committed a vile act which was utterly reprehensible.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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The Minister says he has been involved in protests. I have been involved in protests and I will continue to be involved in protests. If I blocked a road, I would be moved. I know I am speaking about two different scenarios but there is a feeling that the balance being struck is possibly imbalanced. We have a scenario where gardaí dealt with a situation in the way they saw fit but it still ended up with people's homes being burned out.

The international reaction to this is to look at what is happening in Ireland and state this is what the Irish are doing. The Irish are all over the world speaking about their emigration story, but when it comes to people who come to their land looking for sanctuary, they burn them out. When they block a road in Inch in County Clare, they are allowed to do so. I am interested to know more about what the Garda Commissioner said is the right way to deal with these matters. If I blocked a road, I am pretty sure gardaí would be down quickly to move me on.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I absolutely respect the wisdom of the Garda Commissioner and the way gardaí handle protests. They are the people with the professionalism and the experience to deal with it. I am deeply concerned by the pictures I saw on television at the weekend of masked men. Appallingly, they were carrying my flag and your flag. This is unacceptable. It is reported that, allegedly, people went on a bus and counted refugees as if they were animals. This is unacceptable. The way people seeking international protection were abused physically and intimidated is not acceptable. I welcome the fact there are ongoing Garda investigations. I laud it for all of this and stand behind the force in its acts but I am not happy with the response so far. I have to say this truthfully and honestly.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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A number of different issues have been mentioned and people have been good enough to acknowledge this. They are quite different. I have dealt with the issue of the burning of a tent which was somebody's home. This was an utterly vile and disgusting act that rightly appalled and sickened people in this country. There is an ongoing Garda investigation into this situation, as there rightly should be, and the full rigours of the law should apply.

With regard to the issue we saw in Santry let me be very clear that we saw people hijacking the Irish flag-----

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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-----a flag that represents peace, inclusion and welcome. The Ireland people should be seeing around the world is one that has welcomed more than 100,000 people to our country over the course of just over 12 months. Those people do not speak for Ireland. They have no democratic mandate. There is no part of this country that can be in any way lawless. There are very clear laws for this country. The Garda Commissioner and I have discussed this and we keep in regular contact. Under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act it is an offence to make someone believe they are likely to be assaulted. It is an offence to threaten someone with serious harm. It is an offence to beset someone in a way that interferes with their peace or privacy or causes them alarm. Our public order legislation criminalises offensive behaviour in a public place. There are plenty of laws and I know the Garda will enforce them with full rigour.