Dáil debates

Tuesday, 23 May 2023

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions

Rural Schemes

11:30 pm

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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82. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the progress made with the review of the rural social scheme; when it will be completed; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [24674/23]

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to ask the Minister of State about the review that is taking place in the rural social scheme, RSS, and when it is likely to be completed. Changes are needed urgently to the scheme, which has a large number of vacancies on it.

Photo of Joe O'BrienJoe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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The RSS implementing bodies undertake a diverse range of activities including the regeneration and enhancement of community spaces, environmental maintenance work and the staffing of cultural, tourism and heritage sites. I acknowledge the excellent work undertaken and the contribution these schemes and their workers make to communities across the country.

The RSS has a budget of more than €51 million in 2023 and currently has more than 2,800 participants. The Deputy will be aware that the six-year participation limit was removed prior to the commencement of the review. I set up and RSS review steering group late last year, which comprises a range of key stakeholders representing statutory, voluntary, community and farming organisations, with an independent chair to oversee the group. The RSS review will examine the current and future role of the scheme and the changes required to ensure its continuing relevance in a changing economic and environmental landscape. In addition it can make recommendations as to the most appropriate resourcing, governance and management arrangements for the scheme.

A consultation process is currently under way with an online survey issuing to scheme supervisors, participants, implementing bodies and placement providers. Additionally, interested parties will be invited to make written submissions on a number of key themes that have been identified by the steering group. Consideration is also being given to holding a number of themed focus groups and workshops. We will hold an event later this year to facilitate those groups and workshops.

It is anticipated that the review will be completed by the end of the year. I look forward to receiving the review report, and expect that the recommendations will focus on ensuring the best outcomes for participants and their local communities going forward.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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When Ministers are advising in scripts that it will be by the end of the year, and so on, I always take it with a pinch of salt. It could be well into next year. In fact, we could be on top of an election if the Taoiseach calls the election when he said he would call the election, which is autumn 12 months.

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Breaking news.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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In the meantime, will the Minister of State consider reversing the change that was made to the means-testing under the scheme? By definition, all of these are small farmers and all of them have an income. The reality is that for people with adult or child dependants, they are getting paid €27.50 for 19.5 hours per week, which is €1.50 per hour. It is fair to say that all someone needs to do is go to all the football pitches around the country and around all of the villages and towns to see all of the Tidy Towns work that has been done. The RSS is a most amazing scheme and it really delivers. Obviously these are very expert people as they are all farmers. In the meantime, while this long involved and convoluted review is taking place, will the Minister of State consider reversing the changes that were made to the means-testing under the scheme, and pay everybody the full rate that they should get?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ring also wants to come in on this matter.

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree with Deputy Ó Cuív. This has been one of the best schemes that has ever been introduced by a Government. I have just taken a note of what they are actually earning per week, which is €27.50. They actually do more work in rural areas than the county councils. I am asking the Minister of State to do what has to be done immediately. When officials get at reviews there is a review of a review of the review. I was a Minister myself and I know about reviews. They have to be told that you want the report completed in a certain time. Even then they will not have it but at least you would have put them on guard that they would be doing something about the review.

There is no need for a review here. Everybody knows that this scheme works. As Deputy Ó Cuív said, the one problem we have now is that we do not have enough people to go on these schemes, particularly in the area of health. Without these schemes in some of the areas of health, we would have a major problem. I would like the Minister of State to deal with this as quickly as possible and to pay these people as quickly as possible.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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So, do not bother with the review, just get on with it.

Photo of Joe O'BrienJoe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputies. I dispute the fact but I understand why people are concerned and that they would think it might drag on. I am determined that it is going to be as tight as possible. At the same time, we need to get the views in. I want to refresh it. I do not just want to make one or two tweaks to it. The scheme has huge potential in the long term and there are opportunities that we need to consider, which perhaps the RSS has not gone into before.

Ostensibly, it is labelled as an income support scheme but the Deputies know as well as I do that people on the scheme do not get involved for the money. They get involved for the community aspect. They get involved to be a part of the community. Ultimately, it is social inclusion scheme and it is also mental health scheme. There are a lot of core benefits, to use a phrase, that need to be identified and acknowledged by other Departments that are at the table for the review as well. They also need to play their part.

I wish I had the power to go, "Yes, let us just bump up the rates on it now", but we must respect the review process. I expect there will be financial suggestions coming out of the process and I will look at them in due course.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I will let the Minister of State into a little secret. I went to a Minister for Finance and he said, "Get a scheme to me by breakfast time tomorrow morning." I wrote the scheme out in one morning, it was passed in the budget and set up. If we went back to the people who participated in the scheme, and particularly the people who had dependants, they would say the scheme was a good scheme and that a lot of work was done. It was very popular in rural Ireland. There were high participation rates until they changed the rules on the means testing. Will the Minister of State reverse that rule change while he is doing the review? I cannot understand how it can take so long. I suspect that when all of the review is done and we have all the changes, it will be very little. In the meantime, will the Minister of State reverse it and stop having people working for €27.50? The reality is that people with dependants, be it children or adult spouses or partners, are not going on the scheme. Yes, it is good for people's mental health but they, like everybody else in the country, have to put bread on the table. As the Minister of State will be aware, their labour is worthy of their hire.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ó Cuív invented the scheme so he knows what he is talking about.

Photo of Joe O'BrienJoe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
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I would not question the Deputy's knowledge on the RSS ever. He will know too the answer that I am able to give, that I will use the phrase, "It is a budgetary matter", and that I do not control the strings in the middle of a budget year. I attended the first meeting of the review group. It was very clear that the income side of it came up there as well. We had 1,000 submissions to the questionnaire we put out. There is a bit of that in the process there. I would be very surprised if proposals around increasing the rate of it were not part of that. If we have that volume of people participating, and if we have high volumes of people saying that, it can certainly strengthen our hand at budget time to make the case the Deputies have made.