Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

7. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence for a report on the work of the external oversight body for the Defence Forces; if membership is being expanded; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22686/23]

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have raised this issue on a number of occasions. I ask the Minister for a report on the work of the external oversight body for the Defence Forces and whether membership is being expanded. As he will be aware, following his meeting with the Women of Honour group, among others, there have been calls for that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. As he will be aware, the Government agreed to establish the external oversight body of the Defence Forces on a non-statutory basis initially, in line with one of the 13 recommendations of the independent review group on dignity and equality issues in the Defence Forces published on 28 March. The Government moved quickly to establish the body, making the following appointments on 5 April: Professor Brian MacCraith as the independent chair, Ms Josephine Feehily, Ms Patricia King, Ms Julie Sinnamon, Mr. Aongus Hegarty and Ms Jacqui McCrum in her capacity as Secretary General of the Department of Defence. These six appointments are fully in line with the IRG report, which recommended eight appointments, including the Secretary General of the Department of Defence.  

I am also pleased to announce that, with the agreement of Government this morning, I have today appointed Ms Sam des Forges to the body. She is the director of conduct, equity and justice in the Ministry of Defence in the United Kingdom and has very relevant experience in the areas of diversity and inclusion, transformation of the defence forces complaints system and the implementation of reforms relating to culture and unacceptable behaviours within defence forces. Her unique personal experience, expertise and insight will be of huge value to the body. I intend to make a further appointment to the body in the near future.

The immediate establishment of the external oversight body is a critical element to driving the necessary culture change throughout the Defence Forces and increasing transparency and accountability. The calibre and combined skills and experience of each member gives me every confidence that this will happen. The first task I set the body was to develop detailed terms of reference, in line with the recommendations of the report, for my approval.

I am pleased to confirm the body met for the first time on 17 April. I spoke to the chair after that meeting and I understand the meeting was professional and productive. The body met again on 4 May and I understand it is also meeting today. My expectation is that the chair will submit detailed terms of reference for my approval in the coming weeks. Once approved, the terms of reference will be published. While the body has been established on non-statutory basis, it is my firm intention to introduce legislation to put it on a statutory footing as soon as possible.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister. I want to acknowledge his swift action and engagement since the publication of the 13 recommendations, as well as his recent engagement with various groups. He will be aware of the opposition of the Women of Honour group and others to the IRG report recommendation that membership of the external oversight body of the Defence Forces should include the Secretary General of the Department. The Women of Honour group, in particular, stated that it believed the Secretary General of the Department should not be a member of the oversight board. It called for appointees to the independent oversight board to be vetted by the Oireachtas committee.

Following his recent meeting with the various groups in response to their calls that the Secretary General should not be a member of the oversight group, what assurances can the Minister provide to address those concerns? I commend the expansion of the oversight group he outlined, such as the appointment today and others that are due to come.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The appointment of the external oversight group was a recommendation of the IRG. We implemented it exactly in line with the recommendation of the group. The report was welcomed in the House for its shocking, but very clear, presentation of the issues facing the Defence Forces and the experiences of the many people it met. The Government has to have the capacity to move and implement recommendations, in particular in terms of a body such as this.

We were very determined, because before the report was published all the questions on defence in this House were as to whether I would implement these recommendations in full. I was asked that here before the report was even published. I said I would. No sooner do I implement the recommendations than the very action of doing so is criticised. There has to be momentum in decision making. We are engaging with all of the groups on the terms of reference and the nature of the statutory inquiry we will have, following the work of the internal review group. However, I am determined to move on issues with regard to the suicide aspect of the report, aviation actions and so on and to get momentum behind the recommendations.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I was one of the people welcoming the publication of the report, because it was eagerly awaited by all Members of the House. The Association of Retired Commissioned Officers, ARCO, while welcoming the establishment of the external oversight body, has expressed concern about the imbalance of the defence representation in its membership. ARCO says the inclusion of a civilian defence official should be balanced by the inclusion of a military professional and this body will have to have the trust and confidence of both military and civilian components of the defence community. I ask the Tánaiste to give his opinions on those calls.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is an external oversight body in respect of the Defence Forces. It would not be appropriate to have a member of the Defence Forces there. That is not casting aspersions on anybody or any organisation. I regret the focus from the military community in respect of the fact the Secretary General of the Department is part of it. That is not fair or reasonable. There is a logic to it, by the way. As someone who has experienced this in government for quite a long time and at different times in my political career, I understand how one has to have that link with administration to deliver recommendations and make sure they happen. It is a crucial link to the oversight body to have the office of the Secretary General, irrespective of the person. Otherwise an oversight body could be batting off a haystack. There has to be accountability in terms of what is identified as change that is required and an assurance that change is being delivered. I surmise that is why the independent review group recommended the Secretary General would be on this group.