Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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10. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he has relayed to the Government the findings in the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service, IGEES, publication, Housing Analytical Notes, published on 5 December 2022; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22158/23]

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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By the luck of the lottery I get a second chance to ask the Minister of State about this report.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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At least one of us is lucky.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Exactly. The big phenomenon the report identifies is uncommenced apartments. It states that the number of apartment complexes that are getting planning permission way exceeds the number that are built. What is the Government going to do about that?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Housing policy is written for the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage. IGEES staff in the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform carry out research in a broad range of areas affecting expenditure. While this informs the evidence base that is provided by officials in ministerial briefings, housing policy is developed and implemented within the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. IGEES is an integrated cross-government service which seeks to enhance the role of analysis and evidence-based policymaking. The two housing analytical notes published last December are independent pieces of research conducted by IGEES staff in the Department. IGEES staff in the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform regularly undertake research, producing papers, as I have said already.

The planning permissions and housing supply note seeks to broaden the evidence base underpinning the planning process by examining refusal rates, decision times and planning appeals using available data. It also discusses the relationship between planning permission and recent trends in housing supply more broadly, drawing on the available data, as well as the existing research and literature on the topic. A key finding from the research highlights the need for the improved quality of planning data and for further research to be conducted to provide clear insights on the planning process and impacts on commencements and delivery.

The second housing analytical note examines the activity and take-up of the Rebuilding Ireland home loan, as I have already said. The findings highlighted the strong demand that is there. All of the work carried out by IGEES within the Department forms the evidence base which officials use to brief the Minister. All papers are publicly available and published on the IGEES website. Any member of Government or the public can view this research and its findings. Going back to Deputy Ó Cathasaigh's point, the Minister fully supports the transparency that allows members of the public, stakeholders and the Government colleagues to access the pieces of research and analysis carried out on his behalf.

All research and analysis papers prepared by the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service, IGEES, including work prepared by staff in the Department, while used to inform policymakers, are independent and do not necessarily represent the ministerial policy view or the position of the Department or Government. This independence is an important pillar in its contribution to evidence-based policymaking.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister of State has just read out the same note he read out ten minutes ago.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy asked the same question.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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No, I did not. The transcript will show that I am trying to develop the argument while the Minister of State is just stonewalling because he does not want to acknowledge the fundamental point. This is evidence. It is not just someone's opinion or a political policy; it is evidence produced by the Minister of State's Department and what it shows is that there is no problem getting planning permission for housing or apartments, that the number of planning permissions far exceeds the number of completions by a multiple of factors and that planning objections are not a problem. It also says what probably is the problem where it notes that "un-commenced permitted units could indicate the speculative purchasing and holding of land with a view to greater future resale value", that planning permissions may be being acquired to hold as assets and that "acquiring permission for apartment development, rather than housing developments, could be the most attractive option for speculative land holders and thus yield the most amount of value added upon resale." That is what the Minister of State's Department thinks is happening. What does the Minister of State think about that?

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I think that the most important line in the first reply I read out to the Deputy is in the last part. By the way, it was not the same reply both times because the questions were different. It is a pity they were not grouped together because it would have avoided me having to stand up a second time.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I would say it is fortuitous.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Well, maybe. The most important line is that referring to independence as a pillar in the unit's contribution to evidence-based policymaking. It is almost like the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council. It provides evidence and, sometimes, contrarian views but, ultimately, it is for the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to make a determination with regard to housing policy. The Deputy tells me that planning objections really do not make a difference. Every day during Leaders' Questions, week in, week out, we have heard about planning objections, including some in the Deputy's own constituency, being made on ideological bases. If the Deputy is telling me that planning objections have no impact on the delivery of housing in his area or across Dublin----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister of State's Department said that.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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In the real world, planning objections make a difference and ultimately prevent people from getting on with the job of delivering the housing we all want.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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In other words, the Minister of State's Department completely ignores the data it collects and the analysis it carries out. The Minister of State continues to trot out mantras without the slightest evidence. I am afraid the evidence produced by his Department shows there is no problem with planning permission. The number of planning permissions being granted is increasing dramatically, it far exceeds the number of completions and the number of refusals is a tiny proportion of that figure. The Minister of State made a point about rural Ireland earlier. Let us take Longford as an example. The refusal rate is 10% from a total of 1,747 applications. In fact, there were more planning applications in Longford than there were in most Dublin local authority areas so not even the Minister of State's point on urban and rural areas is correct. It is just not true but he keeps saying it. If IGEES believes speculators are really the ones determining things, then the Government's policy is simply articulating the views of the speculators.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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In fairness to him, the Deputy gets away with a lot of things in here but to compare the planning processes in train in Longford to those in Dublin, where the majority-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not me. This is the Minister of State's Department's report.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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Will the Deputy let me finish? I imagine the majority of planning applications in Longford are for one-off houses or small schemes. The Deputy is comparing bananas to pineapples. There is no comparison. Let us look at the greater Dublin area, although I know the Deputy did not want to refer to this. The report states:

Counties in the [greater Dublin area], and those containing large urban centres, tended to have higher refusal rates. Refusal rates across [local authority areas] ranged from 37% in Kildare to 4% in Tipperary.

I will not go through the data but County Tipperary is my neighbouring county and I imagine the vast majority of planning applications in that county are for one-off houses. If the Deputy thinks the housing situation in Dublin can be solved with one-off houses, he is deluded. The overall rate of refusal across all areas covered by the report is 15%. The Deputy says that is a tiny number. It is an enormous number when one considers that it is 15% of planning applications not 15% of proposed units. The Deputy is proficient in submitting objections. The number of units being objected to is enormous.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is sort of-----

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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We are finished.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputies get two bites, not three.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy got four bites.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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It rests with the Department to group questions.