Dáil debates

Thursday, 11 May 2023

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions

Shared Services

10:10 am

Photo of Neasa HouriganNeasa Hourigan (Dublin Central, Green Party)
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11. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he will outline a timeline, completion date and cost to the State of the financial management shared services project by the National Shared Services Office; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21316/23]

Photo of Neasa HouriganNeasa Hourigan (Dublin Central, Green Party)
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Will the Minister of State outline the timeline, completion date and cost to the State of the financial management shared services project of the National Shared Services Office?

Photo of Patrick O'DonovanPatrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy very much. I am taking this question for the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth. The delivery of the financial management shared services centre and programme was approved by the Government in 2020 with an indicative timeline through 2025 and assigned a budget of €115 million. The programme plays a central role in the delivery of the Civil Service renewal programme and represents one of the largest transformations of financial management for central government in recent times.

The programme moves all financial transaction processing and reporting for all of central government onto a new single financial management system run on the Oracle E-Business Suite. Fundamental to the transformation is the implementation of a single common chart of accounts and integrated standardised accounting processes across Government. The benefits of this new central accounting system and finance shared services are to include: reform and modernisation of financial management practices and processes; the standardisation of accounting processes across central government, ensuring our compliance with existing and emerging international reporting and transparency requirements; support for EU and Government policy on e-invoicing, e-procurement and help to better manage suppliers and procurement expenditure; support for the professionalisation of finance teams across Government Departments, ensuring that all finance users are following standard best practice processes on a single system; and the replacement of over 30 disparate legacy financial and reporting systems.

This is a highly complex transformation programme which, when fully operational, will support some 50 central Government Departments and bodies, centralising all financial processing activity and delivering standardisation across financial reporting.

Despite the challenges of the Covid-19 pandemic, the programme went live in April 2022 with eight entities, including the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. The programme sees the National Shared Services Office, NSSO, launch its third service with finance shared services having now completed a full year in operation. As with all complex transformation projects, there have been challenges following implementation. In particular, the lessons the NSSO has learned from the first wave will be applied to enhance the next wave. All Departments have filed their year-end 2022 appropriation accounts within the required deadline. Engagement with the second wave of clients is under way and indicative timelines will be reviewed as part of this engagement.

Photo of Neasa HouriganNeasa Hourigan (Dublin Central, Green Party)
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I thank the Minister of State. To be clear, the first phase was started in April 2022 with eight bodies. In mid-2022, this House was told that phase 2 had begun, that it would include 15 bodies and that it should have been completed by the end of 2022. Will the Minister of State clarify whether we are still in phase 2? Has that begun? How far along is that phase? Have we started phase 3? We are looking to move 50 bodies by 2025 so, if we are still only in phase 2, we are not even halfway. That would obviously be a concern. If possible, will the Minister of State provide some clarification on the funding? The original package was for €115 million. How much of that has been spent? What is the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform's projected cost for this project?

Photo of Patrick O'DonovanPatrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy asked for the names of the specific organisations that have already moved across and the timeframe in which others will move across. I will have to ask the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, to respond to her on those issues. With regard to the financial envelope, the Government decision I referred to provides for a capital envelope of €115 million. Of course, the final cost will not be known until the project is completed but the NSSO is making every effort to control the cost. I will get the Minister of State to revert to the Deputy on the specific bodies that have moved and the timeframes for movement.

Photo of Neasa HouriganNeasa Hourigan (Dublin Central, Green Party)
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If possible, special attention should be given to that costing because there obviously will be a projected cost. I understand that these are proprietary ICT programmes so it would be possible to know how much it is going to cost by 2025. It is a pretty medium-term range so I expect there is a number out there somewhere. I will flag for the Minister of State that a core element of the roll-out of the digital services - I am under the impression it sits under the digital scheme - and of Sláintecare is e-health records. In the last few weeks, we have all come to the conclusion, which is certainly supported by the evidence of officials from the Department of Health who came before the Oireachtas committee, that, because of an intervention on e-health from the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, it is likely that e-health records will not be rolled-out in this country until 2032. That Department requires that a link to the children's hospital be included in the business case.

Will the Department look at e-health record services in light of the commitment to digital services and remove that link from the children's hospital to the business case for e-health records? This would possibly remove two to four years and bring the completion date down from 2032 to 2027.

10:20 am

Photo of Patrick O'DonovanPatrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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I will address the points the Deputy raised regarding the individual waves. Eight Departments or offices were part of wave 1 and the second wave will see a further 14 clients on-boarded. On the timeframes, wave 2 Departments have started. Based on the expected timelines, it is hoped the second wave will go live in the latter part of 2024 or as soon as possible. On cost, some €73 million has been spent to date. The bulk of the development is conducted in the early stages of the programme. The expenditure includes all the licensing and the majority of the development to build the requirements for future waves and the migration of wave 1 clients. I will ask the Minister of State, Deputy Ossian Smyth, to revert to the Deputy regarding the timeframes for each one.