Dáil debates

Tuesday, 9 May 2023

Ceisteanna - Questions

Departmental Policies

4:10 pm

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [19138/23]

Photo of Alan DillonAlan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the public service, justice and police reform division of his Department. [19441/23]

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [20421/23]

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [20529/23]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and public services will next meet. [20325/23]

Photo of Cian O'CallaghanCian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [20669/23]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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7. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [20682/23]

Photo of Marc Ó CathasaighMarc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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8. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [21307/23]

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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9. To ask the Taoiseach which Cabinet committee deals with ethics reform; and when it will next meet. [21482/23]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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10. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [21528/23]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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11. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [21531/23]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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12. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the social policy and public service reform division of his Department. [21534/23]

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 12, inclusive, together.

The role of the social policy and public service reform division is to assist me, as Taoiseach, and the Government, in fulfilling programme for Government objectives to help create a socially inclusive and fair society. Specifically, the division assists the work of the newly established Cabinet committees, as follows. The Cabinet committee on social affairs and public services and the associated senior officials' group oversee programme for Government commitments in the areas of social policy, with a particular focus on equality and integration and public service reform, which includes efforts to reform the statutory framework for ethics in public office. The committee last met on 8 May and will meet again in the period ahead.

The Cabinet committee on children and education and the associated senior officials' group oversee the programme for Government commitments in the area of children and education, including further and higher education, with a specific focus on child poverty and well-being and to confront local area disadvantage.

The Cabinet committee on health and the associated senior officials’ group oversee programme for Government commitments regarding health and health system reforms, including Sláintecare, reform of disability services and development of mental health services. This committee will also maintain an overview of public health, including the impact of Covid-19 and the cross-government response.

The Cabinet committee on the humanitarian response to Ukraine and the associated senior officials’ group oversee the whole-of-government humanitarian response to assist people from Ukraine who have sought temporary protection here. The division also assists the work of the Civil Service management board, which oversees Civil Service renewal and other matters. It has departmental oversight of the National Economic and Social Council, NESC, advances the Dublin north-east inner city, NEIC, initiative, including through assisting the work of the programme implementation board, programme office and oversight group. It has responsibility for managing the child poverty and well-being programme office which is bringing strategic leadership and enhanced accountability to these issues. It assists public service reform through membership of the public service leadership board and public service management group. It provides me with briefing and speech material on social policy and public service reform issues. It also incorporates the policing reform implementation programme office, which oversees the implementation of A Policing Service for our Future, which is the Government’s plan to reform policing in Ireland in line with the report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Focus Ireland's Best Interest of the Child campaign is being launched today, as the Taoiseach knows. Legislation published by the charity places an obligation on local authorities to take the best interests of the child into account when working with families who present as homeless. As the charity has highlighted, despite all the evidence of the harm that homelessness does to children, local authorities operate under laws that were written more than 40 years ago and do not recognise children or their unique needs. The number of children living in emergency housing funded by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has increased by over 60% since this Government came into office. Many children spend more than two years in unsuitable and inappropriate emergency accommodation. It is also important to recognise that while there are now 3,500 children in emergency accommodation, there are thousands more who are effectively homeless and who are living in overcrowded and inappropriate settings. The Government parties acknowledge and accept the immediate and long-term impact the trauma of homelessness has on children. Earlier, the Taoiseach expressed an interest or impulse to examine legislation in this regard. Can I invite him to go further than that and to commit to acting on these matters to work with us in opposition and to progress this legislative protection for children, as is the norm in other jurisdictions?

Photo of Alan DillonAlan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The recurrent issue of an inadequate Garda presence in our rural region is one we cannot overlook any longer. The programme for Government explicitly mentions the priority given to visible policing in both urban and rural communities, recognising its centrality to our social contract with citizens and its vital role in maintaining the safety and security of our communities. We saw a significant restructuring in the Mayo division when it was merged with Longford and Roscommon. This move was expected to bolster the numbers of Garda personnel across the region, leading to improved workflow management, standardised procedures and efficiencies. Despite these promises, the reality on the ground in rural counties like Mayo is concerning. Our local streets and some towns often lack that visible Garda presence.

Indeed, the divisional headquarters in Castlebar is now without a resident superintendent and senior ranking officer both to oversee the modernisation of the policing model and to deal with serious crime. In many Mayo communities, the local Garda stations are often open for only two hours a day.

The implications of such limited resources in rural areas are severe. I ask that the Government provide more adequate resources to build safer, stronger communities in our rural areas and to enhance the Garda presence in these areas.

4:20 pm

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I raise first the plight of those seeking international protection who have, shamefully, been left without accommodation. Several hundred persons now have no place to go, despite having arrived here seeking refuge. The Taoiseach will be aware that in my constituency, up to 40 tents are now camped in Mount Street outside the International Protection Accommodation Services, IPAS, office. I was there on Friday and the number has grown even since then. I have contacted the office of the Minister for Children, Disability, Equality, Integration and Youth about this and also Dublin City Council. Clearly, it is very distressing for those who are sleeping in tents on the street. It is also distressing for local residents, who are hugely compassionate and sympathetic to the plight of the individuals concerned. I am told by the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman's, Department that it is making intensive efforts to secure accommodation for those who are left homeless in this way but is finding the situation very challenging. Can the Taoiseach say he and his Government are providing sufficient support to the Department with responsibility for integration? Clearly not, if we are seeing so many hundreds of people left without any State-provided accommodation. I am conscious a court decision has already established that the Government is in breach of its obligations in failing to provide any accommodation to asylum seekers in this way.

I raise also the issue of the GAA and the way in which matches are broadcast. There is huge anger about the way in which championship hurling and football games are broadcast. My party colleague Deputy Kelly has proposed a constructive way around this. I know the Taoiseach responded to a question about this earlier. Why do we not broadcast these matches on Saorview and enable people to opt in for an additional €5, for example, on their licence fee? That would enable people to watch matches on their television screens rather than having to stream them.

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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We all accept family members and carers do a huge level of work, save the State a great deal of money, and facilitate people to live in their own homes and not in residential care or nursing homes. I have been canvassing lately and, judging by that and calls to my office, a large number of people are irate about how long it takes to get an adaptation grant or a disabled person's grant, and sometimes the amounts do not cover the work that is needed. We are not meeting these people where we need to. Louth County Council has told us it is suspending receipt of applications for various disabled persons' grant schemes due to vast oversubscription which exceeds both budgets and capacity to manage and process applications. That means we have neither the money nor the resources. We need to involve the HSE and ensure there is a review, possibly of the criteria and so on. We are failing a huge number of people and we really need to deal with this.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have two points. First, given the scandal of both asylum seekers coming to this country who are now sleeping in tents and are not being provided with anywhere to go, and the issue of homelessness, especially now it is likely to get worse as a result of the eviction ban being lifted, how can it be that the Jurys Hotel building with hundreds of rooms has been just lying empty for years? It is really insulting, frankly, when there are people in tents and families are being told they have to sleep in a car.

Second, I have been contacted by people in Gorey about the shock decision to close the St. Aidan's Day Care Centre at Mulcahy House for 12 weeks. It is a respite service for north Wexford. The Taoiseach knows how much family carers save our society in providing care for their loved ones with disabilities, but they need respite services. Now, for 12 weeks, those respite services are going to close and, indeed, there is a fear they may never reopen because of difficulties in recruiting and retaining staff. Will the Taoiseach look at that issue? The families and people affected are absolutely shocked at this service closing.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Included in this grouping is a question about ethics reform. The Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, emerged today and, for the first time, answered some questions about his unethical behaviour, not from Deputies because he refused to do and the Taoiseach shielded him in that decision, but instead from the media. So, for the first time, not on the Dáil record but to the media, the Minister of State admitted that in January 2007, when he participated in the decision to put land up for sale, he knew at that moment that his wife had expressed interest in buying that land. Does the Taoiseach agree his position as a Minister of State is now not tenable?

I can read for the Taoiseach from the code of conduct for councillors, which is crystal clear. It states:

...under the 2001 Act councillors must disclose at a meeting of the local authority or of its committees any pecuniary or other beneficial interest, (of which they have actual knowledge) they or a connected person have in, or material to, any matter with which the local authority is concerned in the discharge of its functions, and which comes before the meeting. The councillor must withdraw from the meeting after disclosure and must not vote or take part in any discussion or consideration of the matter or seek to in any other aspect influence the decision making of the Council.

The Minister of State has admitted it. He said he knew. He had knowledge at the time. It is absolutely black and white. He did not discharge himself. He did not declare the interest. How can he continue as a Minister of State?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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In respect of the Focus Ireland legislation, as I said earlier, the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage is going to consider it. He is considering some amendments to the Housing Act and it will be considered in that context. I know local authorities would argue they already do take into account the best interests of the child but perhaps that is not what happens on the ground, so we will give it some consideration. We are also giving consideration to Simon Community legislation that would assist people who are at risk of homelessness.

Deputy Dillon raised the issue of Garda resources in Mayo and other parts of the country. I certainly hear what he is saying, but I can give the assurance to the House that Garda numbers are growing again. Templemore college is open. There are more than 14,000 Garda members now. We are aiming for 15,000. We have funding for 1,000 additional recruits this year and, even when we take into account retirements and resignations, that will still see an increase in the total number of gardaí this year. We are also hiring more and more Garda staff, who free up sworn and uniformed gardaí for work, protecting the community and making our communities stronger and safer.

In regard to unaccommodated asylum seekers, the most impactful thing we can do is provide accommodation. We hope to be able to provide accommodation for a significant number of people next week through new accommodation which has been secured. For those who are unaccommodated at the moment, we have secured access to day services in Dublin, in the Capuchin Day Centre and Mendicity. There are also additional vouchers and easier access to the daily expenses allowance, and we are looking to secure access to night-time services as well. Again, we should not lose sight of the bigger picture. Nearly 100,000 people have come here in the past year from Ukraine and other parts of the world seeking our protection. Almost all of those have been accommodated, but we are now at the point where we cannot guarantee accommodation to everyone who comes here seeking asylum. That is just, unfortunately, the position we are in at the moment and we need to be honest with people about that, but we will do the best we can to provide shelter and we will turn nobody away.

In respect of the Saorview option Deputy Kelly raised, I do not know whether that is feasible or not. We would have to check with the experts but, certainly, somebody should check on it anyway. I welcome the suggestion and will make sure it is checked out as an option.

On the disabled person's grant, my understanding is an additional allocation was made in recent weeks, but I will check that with the Minister, Deputy O'Brien.

My understanding is the Jurys Hotel building is not available. I do not know the details behind that. I understand it is going to be redeveloped and is not available.

Again, I do not know the details in respect of the respite services in Gorey but I will let the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, know it was raised in the House. It is concerning the service may close for a period. If it is down to staffing, that is a real challenge. We are at the point of full employment now in Ireland, and while I would much rather there be full employment than high levels of unemployment, it does mean everyone is short of staff. In the public sector and the private sector - every sector - and for well-paid positions and poorly paid positions, everyone is short of staff and that challenges us to change the way we do things and try to reform services, but that is very difficult when it comes to something like respite, which is inherently labour intensive.

Regarding the matters raised by Deputy Paul Murphy, it is my firm view that Ministers are accountable to the Dáil and should make statements and take questions about their actions. However, if it is the case that Ministers are accountable to the Dáil for actions that do not relate to their work as Ministers, that should apply to all Deputies and all Deputies should be willing to answer questions here in the Dáil and make statements.

4:30 pm

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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Sure I said "Yes" you said "No", no problem.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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That should be read across the board. We should also have fair rules on that; they are not always there. I do not think it is right that only Ministers should be required to attend to the Dáil, particularly when it does not relate to their ministerial functions which is what is being argued here. In the case of the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, this relates to events of 16 years ago at the Bruff area committee. I understand that complaints have now been made to the Standards in Public Office Commission, SIPO. SIPO is the appropriate body to make a determination on this matter and we await its decision.