Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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9. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the number of staff who will be impacted by new wage agreements in early years education. [15717/23]

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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What have been the benefits and the number of people affected by the implementation of the employment regulation order, ERO? How many have benefitted from the new wage structures?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Deputy and I have spoken about this issue for as long as I have been in this role and I think both of us are of the belief that the level of pay for early years educators and school-age childcare practitioners should reflect the value of their work for children, families, society and the economy.

The State is not the employer and does not set the pay and conditions for employees in early learning and childcare services. However, there is now through the joint labour committee, JLC, process a formal mechanism established by which employer and employee representatives can negotiate pay rates in this sector.

Last September, the first ERO for early years services came into effect, providing minimum hourly rates of pay for different roles, including higher minimum rates for those in leadership roles and those with graduate qualifications, thus establishing a wage structure for staff for the first time. The ERO applies to all who are in direct contact with children in early learning and care and school-age childcare services. In total, the order applies to more than 26,000 staff. While some staff already earned more than the minimum rates, we believe the ERO improved pay for over 70% of those 26,000 staff in the sector.

This historic achievement was achieved through the core funding investment my Department secured, which supports service providers in meeting the additional costs resulting from the ERO, while also providing for a freeze on parental fees and assisting services with financial sustainability.

In budget 2023, I announced the core funding allocation will increase by €28 million in year two and signalled that €4 million of that allocation will support the removal of the three-year experience rule for graduate premiums, subject to the amendment of the current ERO. The allocation of the remaining €24 million will be informed by the emerging data from the first year of funding, but could potentially support further increases in minimum rates of pay across the sector if the JLC agreed to amend an ERO for the year.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Perversely, the raising of standards of living for people working in the sector has had a negative impact on those providing community services under the early childhood care and education, ECCE, scheme. I have been contacted by one such provider of long standing who tells me the increase in wages has had a serious impact on her core funding, such that her ability to pay everybody equally in her service is impacted. Will the Minister consider a review or survey of early years providers - ECCE schemes in particular - to measure the impact of increases in the core rates? Those increases are vital but have a negative impact on the core funding of some providers.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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We are undertaking a review, announced in December last year, of small sessional ECCE-only services. An issue had been raised that they felt they had not been fully supported by core funding. The data our Department was looking at said otherwise but there was a disagreement. We brought in an independent organisation. I was disappointed by the take-up and the number of services who went into the process. Services said there was an issue, we provided a mechanism to look at it and about 17 services have engaged with it. The independent organisation will undertake a detailed look at their books to get an understanding of whether there are particular pressures small sessional-only ECCE services are under. That information can help us inform year two of core funding.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I welcome that. I was not aware of it. If that is the position and if I have a case of a sessional service where there is an impact on core funding and it has not engaged with the independent process, is it possible for me to refer that directly in at this late stage?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The process is close to over but if Deputy Sherlock wants to give me information for my own decision-making processes that is fine. I think it is too late to join the process that was established. It started in January and we will get the interim report soon. If the Deputy wants to give me information I will be happy to take it from him because it is relevant to my own decision-making process.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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We are within the time and I have another question.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Deputy Sherlock took me by surprise with his brevity. He may make his point.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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That has never been said before.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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This service has a long-standing fantastic reputation with very genuine people and is community minded. If I may ask on behalf of this particular service, if at all possible will the Minister continue to engage with me on it? It is reflective of many other services that may not have come into the Minister's process. For the record, I acknowledge the Minister's nod of assent in response.