Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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1. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he will outline the interaction he has had with the Department of Justice and the Department of Health in regard to surrogacy and the recognition of parentage; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15920/23]

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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My first question is on the surrogacy legislation we are all expecting. It was great last December to see that there was really good progress on this. We are led to believe that many of the recommendations from the Joint Committee on International Surrogacy were taken on board. We are coming into April and two weeks' recess. What stage is this at, particularly for parents who are looking for retrospective recognition?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy. In January 2022, the Government agreed that issues relating to international surrogacy required further detailed consideration and agreed to the establishment of a special Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy. Following the publication of the final report of the committee in July 2022, officials from my Department joined colleagues from the Department of Health and the Department of Justice to form an interdepartmental group to analyse the report and make legislative proposals. Based on the work of this group, the Minister for Health, the Minister for Justice and myself agreed draft policy and legislative proposals in respect of both the regulation of international surrogacy and the recognition of past surrogacy arrangements, both domestic and international. These proposals were brought to Government and approved in December 2022. Their aim is to establish a legal process to allow for the recognition of parentage in future international surrogacy arrangements and a legal process to enable recognition of parentage in respect of surrogacy arrangements, both domestic and international, undertaken prior to the commencement of the new law.

The policy approach approved by Government proposes that a two-step process will be introduced to allow for the recognition of parentage in future international surrogacy arrangements, encompassing pre-conception approval by the assisted human reproduction authority, AHRRA, and a post-birth court process for the granting of a parental order for surrogacy. The process will include safeguards for the protection of the rights and welfare of all parties to a surrogacy arrangement: the child, including their identity rights; the surrogate mother; and the intending parents. The Minister for Health is the lead Minister in respect of development of the legislation. I understand it is his intention to bring the proposals as amendments to the Health (Assisted Human Reproduction Bill) 2022 on Committee Stage in the Dail. The formal drafting process in respect of those amendments is well under way by the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel, in conjunction with the three Departments.

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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I understand this technically falls to the Department of Health. I always have to reword the questions. I appreciate the Minister taking the question. The committee was very ably chaired by Deputy Whitmore and I was delighted to see that many of its recommendations will be taken on board, particularly the point about the two-step parentage recommended by Professor O'Mahony. My specific concern is around those who are awaiting recognition now. They do not all have the luxury of time. I specifically refer to Brian and Kathy Egan and their family in Kilkenny, who are in an extremely difficult situation. They are in a court process at the moment and I appreciate the Minister may not be able to comment on that specific case. For those awaiting retrospection, is there a possibility, now that we know we are going to progress this legislation, of looking at retrospection to see is there a way to deal with it before the legislation, if it is at the drafting stage? If that is not an option, when will we see the legislation coming before the committee? Is there even a rough estimate?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I am aware of the very pressing needs for parents with children where those legal relations have not been properly established. That being said, I do not think we could promise to provide for the retrospective element beforehand. This has to be done in the one package. The Government has committed to addressing the issue of retrospective parentage and has set out a range of criteria in terms of how that will be assessed. These criteria will include establishing that the surrogacy was not unlawful at the time in the relevant jurisdiction; that it was a purely gestational surrogacy; and that the surrogate mother has provided her consent to the granting of a parental order of surrogacy. The process needs to have those safeguards I referred to, including safeguards for the child, the surrogate mother and for the attending parents. The issues involved in proposing legislative measures for transferring the assigning of parentage in relation to past surrogacy arrangements are highly complex and that is why we are taking that bit of time across the three Departments to draft proper legislation.

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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I appreciate the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, may not have this information as he is not the lead Minister, but is there a rough timeframe for that going to committee? There are so many people who do not have the luxury of time in relation to retrospective recognition. I understand the complexity because we dealt with it in the committee and it was very complex. However, we came up with very good recommendations in a very tight timeframe. If there is no way it can be done before the legislation has passed, is there a way of saying to parents listening in today that once the legislation is passed, the retrospection could be dealt with within a certain timeframe, maybe six weeks? There are some very good recommendations for couples going forward and we see now that this is an option for family make-up surrogacy. It is becoming more of an option, which is fantastic for people. However, one of the fears is that only addresses issues going forward. It is great and we need that but what about those who are in the situation now and who are really concerned about now? I particularly want to reference the Egan family because they have been through hardship and have been in the courts since last September in regard to this issue.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Being honest, as mine is not the lead Department, I cannot give the Deputy a specific timeframe. I will speak to the Minister, Deputy Donnelly, and get back to her directly to give her an indication on times. Following the publication of the proposals in December, I was contacted by groups such as LGBT Ireland. It had flagged some concerns, particularly for same-sex female couples and how it felt some of the elements did not cover them. I have raised that with both the Department of Justice and the Department of Health and that is also being looked at in the context. We all appreciate, both for prospective families who want to use surrogacy or other techniques under assisted reproduction, and for retrospective situations, time is really of the essence. We absolutely understand this. However, this is deeply complex and it is fair to recognise that as well. It is very complex legislation which is establishing new and breaking existing relationships in terms of who gave birth. We have to be careful there but everyone is very cognisant of the need to act rapidly to provide those protections for situations where those protections for children and for parents do not currently exist.

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister come back to me on that?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I will.