David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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6. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth further to the Order of Business and Questions on Promised Legislation debate of 21 March 2023, if he will outline the way young adults with disabilities, in particular those with intellectual disabilities, can access additional personal assistance support specifically to travel to training centres and workshops in a post-second-level setting; the funding streams that can be used for this purpose; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15772/23]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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19. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the way his Department is providing assistance to young adults with disabilities, in particular those with intellectual disabilities, to travel to training centres and workshops; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15771/23]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I am raising this question on behalf of a wonderful, young and fun-loving woman who has Down's syndrome. She is just about to finish second-level education, where she had a great experience and for which she had transport and so on. She is now going on to Cork city from quite a distance away and transport is an issue. She is very vulnerable. In some cases, she has to change buses and she cannot do that. Her parents are working. The HSE has no funding to provide support and neither has the Cope Foundation. Perhaps the Minister will tell us what help he can provide in this instance.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 and 19 together.

I thank the Deputy. The case he has outlined brings to mind a similar case in my constituency. The HSE provides specialist disability services, including day services and rehabilitative training, to people with disabilities who require such services. People with intellectual disabilities form the majority of service users who are supported by these services.

While day service funding does not include transport, some transport supports are provided by the HSE or funded agencies on a discretionary basis, and a variety of transport solutions are pursued in different community healthcare organisation, CHO, areas. These include travel training to enable public transport to be used, where appropriate, local transport such as Local Link, private bus transport and taxis, and some service providers providing transport where capacity exists.

In general, day service users are in receipt of disability allowance and are automatically entitled to the free travel pass. The HSE has been working with the National Transport Authority, NTA, on the issue of transport to HSE day services, through the Open Routes project. Open Routes is based on the idea that transport to HSE services such as day services would be best served by accessible local public transport such as Local Link, transporting people to their day services, but also serving the wider local community with enhanced public transport provision.

This approach is being piloted in Leitrim. The NTA advises that the integrated pilot project was developed in close collaboration with the HSE, with a revised network that is designed to meet the needs of mainstream public transport users as well as the transport needs of passengers with disabilities and those accessing health care services in the county. This pilot project has been in operation for more than a year. To date, all feedback on the pilot from stakeholders such as the HSE, individual day centres, external stakeholders and passengers has been very positive. In addition to the positive feedback, passenger numbers on regular rural services have grown considerably since the introduction of the revised Transport for Ireland, TFI, Local Link network for County Leitrim. This model could be applied in other parts of the country, with the NTA leading on this and working closely with local partners such as the HSE. The NTA and HSE are continuing to progress this work.

At a national level, under the national disability inclusion strategy, the Department of Transport has responsibility for the continued development of accessibility and availability of accessible public transport. To develop proposals for better co-ordination of transport and mobility supports for people with disabilities, a transport working group was established, co-ordinated by my Department and chaired by my colleague the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. The outcomes of the work of the group will provide valuable evidence for future policy development, including the successor strategy to the national disability inclusion strategy. The report was published last month and is available on my Department's website.

On personal assistance, the HSE provides a range of assisted living services, including personal assistant, PA, services to support individuals to maximise their capacity to live full and independent lives. This includes support with accessing transport, depending on a person’s assessed needs. Services are accessed through an application process or through referrals from public health nurses or other community-based staff.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for his response. I have read the transport report he mentioned. That report acknowledges inequality of access to such transport provision. The two questions focused on young people with intellectual disabilities. I acknowledge that considerable work has been done across the country for people with disabilities accessing transport. I ask the Minister to zero in on people like the fabulous young lady with Down's syndrome whom I mentioned. I am sure he will agree that she has a right to attend third-level education. Perhaps this should come under the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. She cannot go on a public transport bus because she is very vulnerable. She is innocent. She is fantastic and is loved by her parents. She needs to get to her place of further education but she cannot. Last week the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, told me in the Dáil that a PA route is a solution, and perhaps it is. Will the Minister agree to look into this? Can we provide PA services so that this young woman has an escort to travel with her on the bus to ensure she arrives at her place of training safely?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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It is a goal of the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and mine to increase the number of PA hours available across the country. PA hours are designed to allow a person with a physical or intellectual disability to live as full a life as possible. Based on how the Deputy described the situation his constituent is facing, her ability to live what has been a very fulfilling life so far with her experience at second level is now being impacted by the difficulty with travel to her third-level facility. The work we are doing in trying to get more PA hours is important there. The pilot in Leitrim is designed specifically for people with disabilities. It recognises the particular challenges a person with a disability using public transport has and the particular supports he or she needs.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I bring the Minister back to the issue of intellectual disability. He has not used that term yet and this is the focus here. This particular young woman has that challenge. She is very vulnerable. Physically she is fine. She loves life, loves fun and loves learning, but she cannot get from her home to her place of education safely, especially if it means changing buses or trains. Her parents want to know what will happen in September when she wants to go with her friends to this new centre. She cannot travel at the moment. The HSE has informed us it has no funding for this transport, nor have the Cope Foundation and others in Cork. As the Minister said, it is done on a discretionary basis, which is hit or miss. That is not good enough. Will the Minister commit to looking at this again before September to see if he can provide funding to the HSE, the Cope Foundation and-or other agencies to ensure a girl like Orla can achieve her potential and go to her place of further education.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Before I call the Minister, two other Members want to come in.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Deputy Stanton for raising the issue. We constantly talk about making places of employment and educational facilities disability friendly. We need an holistic response that goes beyond the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. Earlier this week I spoke to the Minister for Social Protection. I have no doubt I will speak again to the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science. We do not have the pieces regarding further education and personal assistants, who have terrible work conditions, which is an issue that needs to be rectified. We need flexibility with all the grant schemes, such as reasonable accommodations in the workplace and travel assistance. It is about facilitating people to be all they can be. Everyone in society will benefit from this. We are either serious about this or we are not.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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In support of Deputy Stanton and to dovetail with his question, I formally ask the Minister to consider visiting the Down's syndrome facility in Ballincollig, Field of Dreams, where he will meet absolutely amazing people who have issues with access to public transport and transport on a personalised basis. I extend the invitation to the Minister specifically to visit that facility in Ballincollig which does amazing work. The people are absolutely amazing. It has what I call a market garden facility which sells excellent produce into the local market. If the Minister were to hear first hand from people about their challenges and the challenges of core funding, I think he would be very impressed by what they have to offer there.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I am conscious the Minister has only one minute to reply, but Deputy Stanton tabled the question.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I apologise to Deputy Stanton if my answer gave the impression I was excluding persons with intellectual disabilities; I am absolutely not. It is vital they are entitled to be able to avail of the services through education, further education and employment. They need to be supported regarding transport. I will speak to the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, about this particular issue.

I agree with Deputy Ó Murchú about the involvement of all Departments. My Department has a co-ordinating role, but we cannot provide public transport to everyone or provide education to everyone. Ours is a co-ordinating role and that is very much the role the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, assists with.

I thank Deputy Sherlock for his invitation which I will certainly consider. No doubt it would be useful to meet people. From my own constituency, even in a nice urban area like Dublin 15, I am well aware of the real problems persons with disabilities have, particularly in a situation like the one Deputy Stanton described.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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On the way out of Dublin for the day, the Minister should come down to Cork and we will show him.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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That is very kind of the Deputy. The issue of someone with an intellectual disability who needs to change buses or trains is as big a challenge in Blanchardstown as it is anywhere in Cork East. I appreciate that and I will consider it.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Can we write to him to invite him?

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Before moving on, I have no prior notification of substitutions. It is just a general point. I know Deputy Gino Kenny is taking questions for Deputy Bríd Smith. We finally found out that the Deputy gave notification. It puts pressure on the staff in that regard. I do not know what the hiccup is, but the information on substitutions is not getting through to us.

Gino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am sorry about that.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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We got confirmation about Deputy Kenny's substitution.

Gino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am sorry about that. I will address that later on.