Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Tá sé soiléir anois nach dtuigeann an Rialtas seo cé chomh briste is atá ár gcóras tithíochta. Dá mbeadh a fhios aige ní bheadh sé ag caitheamh vóta arís mar a rinne sé aréir, ag déanamh níos mó saoránach a fhágáil gan dídean sna laethanta, sna seachtainí agus sna míonna atá amach romhainn. Sin na fíricí. The reality of our broken housing system does not seem to have dawned on the Tánaiste or any of his Government colleagues because if it had, they would not have voted last night again to make more people homeless in the coming days, weeks and months.

The Tánaiste should listen back to Tom who spoke on "Morning Ireland" this morning. He works and is living in Simon Communities accommodation with 17 other people all of whom are working and are homeless. Prior to finding accommodation with Simon Communities, Tom slept in his car for four months. He said, "I was waking up every morning with wet blankets and clothes that were wet so when I got into work, I took my clothes off and put them on the radiator to dry them." Tom is a working man and a homeless man. Now he says he will die a homeless man. That is the harrowing heartbreaking prospect and into which the Government is choosing to evict working families, single people, children and older people in just 48 hours' time.

The clock is ticking for thousands now facing eviction. It is ticking for the family of two adults and three children in Louth. They face the possibility of losing their home in a couple of weeks. One of their children has autism and another suffers from anxiety and depression. I invite the Tánaiste to talk directly to that family. Where are they meant to go? The clock is ticking for a family in the Tánaiste's city of Cork. Two parents with five children have been renting their home for five years and now they have to get out. They are pleading with the Government to extend the eviction ban to give them more time. The Tánaiste should speak directly to that family on the Leeside. Where does he suggest they go when the Government lifts the ban in 48 hours?

The clock is also ticking for another family here in Dublin, a mother with an autistic son and a six-month-old baby. As parents we all want to safeguard our children. That baby is aged six months but they have to be out in May. She has applied for other apartments but nobody gets back to her. She says she feels sick. I ask the Tánaiste to tell that mother directly where she is to go when the Government lifts her safety net from her and when it ends the ban in 48 hours. That is the level of hopelessness we are hearing from people right across the State. There is despair out there because of the Government's utter failure to address the housing crisis.

The Taoiseach comes to the Dáil and goes on about abundancies of tenancies. Is he serious? Are renters just imagining the queues that stretch right around the corner with those queuing up desperate to find a home hoping that they will be the lucky one out of the hundreds of people queuing? Are they just imagining the empty inboxes when they send out application after application to see nothing coming back and the emails going unanswered? People are at their wits' end. They are running out of options to put a roof over their heads. Families the length and breadth of this State are running out of road.

With eyes wide open every single Member on the other side of this room decided to inflict misery and pain on those individuals. We need to call this decision what it is. It is a Government choosing to push thousands of working families towards homelessness. When will anyone on the Government benches face up to that reality because that is the reality? When will they face up to the fact that they are choosing to make working families, single people and pensioners in their constituencies homeless? For the love of God, we are supposed to be in here to do right, to do good for people not to impose harm, pain, anxiety and homelessness on them, but the Government has done exactly the opposite and is throwing those people to the wolves.

I will ask the Tánaiste the simple question we have asked for weeks. When will he give us an answer? When will he give those families an answer? Where are they to go when the Government removes the safety net from them in 48 hours' time by getting rid of the eviction ban?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The fundamental point that an indefinite eviction ban would make the situation worse and is not a viable policy is one shared by the Deputy and his party. Sinn Féin does not propose an indefinite eviction ban. It proposes exactly the same as the Government decided this week, only it delays it for a number of months. It has changed the delay time. It was 31 December, then it was 31 January and now it has a new iteration of essentially the same point. What Sinn Féin Members have attacked with great fury in recent weeks is exactly what they propose to do. In addition to that, they have also acknowledged that there cannot be a transformation in the overall housing situation within six months or within the lifetime of any eviction ban. A very dishonest proposition is being put by Deputy Doherty and his party in respect of this entire issue because what they are really are about is the exploitation of the issue.

Housing is a very serious issue. Since the establishment of this Government over two and a half years ago, I have consistently said that was the number one priority. Significant progress has been made which Sinn Féin simply does not acknowledge. Many of its policies would have made the situation far worse, as is evidenced by the party's extraordinary decision to oppose about 11,500 proposed houses.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has already been fact-checked on that.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We can leave that, but it is a fact.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No, it is not. The Tánaiste has been fact-checked on it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As Deputy Ó Broin said on radio last week, Sinn Féin wants public housing on public lands only and therefore it was against affordable housing and public lands, cost-rental and so on.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is absolutely not true.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is exactly the position.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What I said was 100% of affordable housing on public land.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If I could, I want to move on, because it is a standard practice now in the House-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He should not mislead the Dáil.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He is misleading the Dáil again.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is a standard practice in the House, which I have witnessed over the last three or four days when Government Members get up to speak, having allowed the Opposition Members to speak without any interruption-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When the Tánaiste misleads the House and misrepresents our position-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----that Government spokespeople are heckled all the time.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If this is going to continue-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will not have the House misled about what I said on radio.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Here we go again.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Ó Broin need not worry about the House being misled.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am very worried about what the Tánaiste is saying.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is Leaders' Questions and Deputy Ó Broin is not the leader. He should hold his whisht and let people speak. A little bit of courtesy is all we are asking for. The Tánaiste to continue.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I said, considerable progress has been made on housing with 30,000 new homes completed last year, a 45% increase on 2021. We saw the highest number of first-time buyer purchases in the month of January since the Central Statistics Office, CSO, data series began in 2010. Nearly 20,000 social homes have been added to the social housing stock since this Government came in. That was up to quarter 3 of 2022 and was the highest in many a year. The 2022 social housing figures will reflect that growth, as will 2023 also.

Regarding measures to deal with the people who are facing potential eviction notices, notices to quit and so on, the in situscheme has been expanded. The Minister has established a specific unit to engage with all local authorities so that in the case the Deputy has identified, the council buys that property and adds it to the social housing stock of the council, keeping the tenant in situ. In addition, resources have been provided for 1,000 units to be leased. Money has been allocated to prevent eviction. Nobody in this House is voting for people to be on the streets.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Nobody in this House is voting for homelessness. We want to develop policies that prevent homelessness. It is our view and the advice we have received that an indefinite long-term ban on evictions would make the situation far worse and would create a greater degree of homelessness over the medium to long term. Why? It is because it would take people out of the rental market entirely.

People will leave the rental market in greater numbers if Sinn Féin's policies are adopted.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste's time is up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sinn Féin has had its impact too in terms of the consistent demonisation of that sector for a long time.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is rubbish.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Let me be clear, the Tánaiste has voted to make people homeless.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Every single Deputy on the Government side has voted to make people homeless. They have done that without knowing where that family in their own county is going to go - two parents working with children. They have no idea where they are going to go. They do not know if they are going to be sent to a Garda station, if they are going to be living in the car or in emergency accommodation. They have no idea, but they voted no matter what to make them homeless.

Gillian is from Dublin. She says herself and her kids are going to be homeless in April. She says they have no family to rely on and they cannot get any help or accommodation or anywhere safe to stay.

Thomas says his landlord is selling up and gave his wife and him notice at the start of the year. He says it is impossible to find anywhere. They are looking at emigrating as a result. They are devastated.

Karen is being evicted after eight years with two young kids. Both of them work full time but rents are so high and there are so few properties that they can only rely on luck, worry and anxiety, which is making them ill. All they feel is shame and despair. Shame on the Government, because it is making this decision, not anybody else.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The time is up.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is making the decision in 48 hours to throw countless families to the wolves.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The time is up.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is still time to do the right thing. The Government should extend the eviction ban. Be it on their heads. These families are being abandoned by the Government.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The time is up.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It should never happen in modern democracy. It is shameful what the Government has done.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sinn Féin proposed to do the very same thing in Christmas week.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Not a chance.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes, Sinn Féin did.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste should stop misleading the House.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It did the very same thing in Christmas week.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He is a disgrace. He stands here and misleads the Dáil every single time.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He is a disgrace.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is not the army council. We are in Parliament. Sinn Féin should have a little bit of respect for the Parliament.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste is a disgrace.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, should sit down.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste is misleading us over and over again.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister for Health should try to sort out the health service.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, has enough to be doing.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is not on.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The accidental landlord. Is the landlord getting excited now?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not going to see the procedures of the House subverted. People are entitled to speak. Deputy Doherty is entitled to make his point, and he has made it very strongly. The Tánaiste is entitled to respond without interruption.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask him not to mislead the Dáil-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Without interruption.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----over and over again.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We do not need comment after comment.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Through the Chair, I think Sinn Féin's tolerance of free debate has always been one that has been questioned over the years.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Our intolerance to dishonesty.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

With respect, on a point of order, I was the person who had to bring that man to the High Court because he was subverting democracy.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Doherty should resume his seat.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He was found guilty because he tried to do this.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Doherty should resume his seat.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is the reality. The Tánaiste and the Government were found guilty.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sinn Féin’s army of trolls may browbeat-----

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Perhaps the Tánaiste could answer the question.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am sorry, but the Tánaiste will not answer anything. I am on my feet. If Members persist with this, then I will suspend the House. I am not going to tolerate it. The people out there who are watching this Parliament conduct its business are disgusted with the sort of behaviour that goes on here.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They have switched off.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

People need to be-----

Denise Mitchell (Dublin Bay North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A couple of people have died also.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

People need to be able to speak without interruption. I will not allow Deputy Doherty to be interrupted but I will not allow him to interrupt anybody else either.

Denise Mitchell (Dublin Bay North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

With all due respect, comments have been thrown-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I think I have enough said, a Cheann Comhairle.

Denise Mitchell (Dublin Bay North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----from over on that side of the House also.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have enough said. There is no point.

Denise Mitchell (Dublin Bay North, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Maybe you should look over there when you are speaking too, a Cheann Comhairle.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has nothing to say.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

He will not answer the question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could I just make the point that I appreciate the challenge you have, a Cheann Comhairle?

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has nothing to say.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have endeavoured to reply. I have been shouted down repeatedly. That is a tactic. I will allow other Members to come in now.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Where are they going to go?

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government should be building houses.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has no answers.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have. The Deputies do not want to listen.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Where are they going to go?

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has no answers.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste has no answers.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could we please-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

People have 48 hours.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputies do not want to listen. It is a deliberate tactic.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could we please have silence?

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Tánaiste misleading the House is a deliberate tactic. It is dishonest politics at their worst.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is absolutely intolerable. I am talking about parliamentary practice.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Dishonesty from the Tánaiste is intolerable.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am talking about parliamentary practice.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am talking about honesty, a Cheann Comhairle.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am talking about parliamentary practice. That is my job. It is to ensure that proper practice is adhered to and not subverted by anybody. Deputy Holly Cairns has the floor.

Holly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The report of the independent review group into the Defence Forces is damning and deeply disturbing. It details a toxic culture that has become embedded in the Defence Forces, in which abuse, bullying, harassment, sexual assault and rape occur with regularity and impunity. The Defence Forces, we are told, "barely tolerates women and, at its worst, verbally, physically, sexually and psychologically abuses women in its ranks." Almost nine out of ten women who responded to the review group experienced sexual harassment while nearly 50% reported sexual assaults. There was a "discernible pattern of rape and sexual assault" in barracks, swimming areas, naval boats, showers and abroad on foreign deployments. Making a complaint about abuse and mistreatment was said to be "career-ending" and would result in intimidation and retaliation. The main perpetrators of the abuse were male officers and there is evidence of serial perpetrators whose behaviour was not only never addressed, but, in fact, rewarded.

A consistent and embedded theme is that some members of the Defence Forces management abuse their positions of power and command in their treatment of subordinates. The report bluntly concludes the Defence Forces is unable, or unwilling, to make the changes that are needed to provide a safe working environment. There has been an "inability of the leadership to change the situation over the last 20 years". Meanwhile, initiatives to address unacceptable behaviour, brought in by the current leadership in 2021 and 2022, were "reactive and overdue" and had not yielded significant results.

Yesterday, the Chief of Staff, Seán Clancy, said he had been completely unaware of the endemic abuse in the Defence Forces for most of his 40-year career. Given the pervasive nature of the sadistic abuse that is detailed in this report, it is hard to understand how that could be the case. If it is true, and the Chief of Staff was blissfully unaware of the horrific abuse for the duration of his career, it speaks to a level of disconnection that is deeply worrying. It is also deeply concerning to read in the Irish Independent today that Lieutenant General Clancy, and his predecessors, gave repeated assurances to the Government – and previous governments – that robust measures were in place to deal with abuse and support victims. This is clearly not the case, and has never been the case. Not only were victims not supported: they were targeted and further abused if they tried to come forward. In contrast, perpetrators were promoted and rewarded. This continued not just for years, but for decades.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The time is up.

Holly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It drove lots of excellent members of the Defence Forces out of the institution, and resulted in huge levels of trauma and suffering.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The time is up.

Holly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My question is simple: Does the Tánaiste have confidence in the current leadership of the Defence Forces?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In the first instance, I thank the Deputy for raising the question. I commend the courage of those women and indeed men, who have shared their experience and have come forward through Women of Honour and Men and Women of Honour, and also current serving members of the Defence Forces who are not members of those specific groups, who have also been very candid and frank in sharing their experiences with me in recent times and with the Department. Only for them, the full scale of this would not have been revealed, which led to the establishment of the scoping review and the independent review group. The group met quite a number of people and many volunteered this information to the group. Raiseaconcern had been established by my predecessor over a year ago, which is a confidential service where people can come and share their experiences. I met with the people who oversee Raiseaconcern. There is a very strong alignment between what is in the independent review group's report, what has come up with Raiseaconcern and in the Defence Forces independent review. It is quite shocking. As the report says, at the heart of it is a culture of fear and people not being in a position or fearful of putting their head above the parapet for fear of reprisal or because it would be a career-ending move. Promotion is a significant part of the dynamic within the Defence Forces. The view of a lot of members is that if you make a complaint you are without question limiting your prospects for promotion in the future. Hence, through the chain of command, there was a system and dynamic, which in its own way acted to suppress what was emerging.

We have to deal fundamentally and radically with all those issues, including the training culture, the chain of command, control and the entire ethos of what a modern defence force should be about, in terms of the threats and challenges we have had.

I am mindful of the quote from the report the Deputy provided on the resistance to change. I have confidence in the Chief of Staff’s commitment to change and reform. Also important is the statutory inquiry we will now establish. It will be a statutory fact-finding inquiry. The independent review group acknowledges it is not quite a fact-finding exercise and recommends the establishment of one. There will have to be significant reforms of that whole structure in the Defence Forces. I will bring proposals to Government on that aspect later.

Holly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Tánaiste but am a little bit confused about his reply. He spoke of resistance to change within the institution but then spoke of confidence in the leadership being able to change that. Will he clarify if he has confidence in the ability of the current leadership to change it, when it says it has no awareness? After 40 years of being an institution, it has no awareness. Is the Tánaiste worried about the disconnect there, if there is no awareness? The report is blunt and clear and it states that neither men nor women in the Defence Forces are working in a safe environment. That is a shocking indictment of our Defence Forces in 2023. The institution cannot guarantee safety for its own members, not just in a conflict zone but in a barracks here. It has to be stressed that much of this abuse is not just bad behaviour but criminal in nature.

I welcome all the recommendations of the report and commend the hard work and diligence of its authors, the women of honour and Katie Hannon. I am concerned at the length of time it might take to introduce those recommendations. The Tánaiste talked about the internal complaints body. There is clearly and understandably no trust in that. One of the recommendations is for an external one. When can we expect to see the reforms not just legislated for, which is required, but implemented and working? We know this is happening up to today and could be happening now.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is a fair point. I am mindful of the report’s conclusions about the resistance. The Chief of Staff has committed to change and reform. We will quickly develop legislation to appoint an independent external complaints process. That has to happen. Interim steps will be taken to facilitate complaints directly to the Ombudsman, which can happen now and does not have to wait for a month any more, and to establish an oversight body on a statutory basis. That body will be completely external to the Defence Forces and will oversee the reform and culture change required.

Holly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Tánaiste have confidence in the current leadership?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will amend the Defence Act 1954 to provide a legislative basis for allegations of any type of sexual assault in the Defence Forces to be referred to An Garda Síochána. We will also set up a non-statutory inquiry into the practice and process of medical boarding and in respect of issues pertaining to suicide. I envisage taking expert bodies in to assess that issue in a professional way, and those who have expertise in that field.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Táim ag filleadh arís ar chúrsaí tithíochta - tá sé níos cirte easpa tithíochta a rá - agus go háirid an cinneadh atá déanta ag an Rialtas, agus a thiocfaidh i bhfeidhm arú amárach ar Lá na nAmadán, nach mbeidh cosaint ar bith ag tionóntaí ó thaobh díshealbhaithe de.

I return to housing. I hope the Tánaiste will deal with the issues I raise in a calm, dignified manner and without trading insults. From Saturday, April Fool’s Day, there will be no protection for tenants, who can be evicted on a no-fault basis. The Tánaiste did not come into the Dáil and tell us why that is being done or what analysis had been done. He did not come in proactively and ask for our co-operation, for reasons set out. His Government reacted and made it up as it went along.

I say that consciously because today I am looking at the 29th Simon report. I have used it often in here. It came out today. It is the 29th snapshot over three days in March. It tells us there are no properties available under the housing assistance payment, HAP, in 16 or 17 areas it looked at, in particular Galway city and its suburbs. HAP payments is the Government’s big step but there are no properties available. I ask the Tánaiste to read the report because it puts it in context and tells us of the significant increases in the average rent, which have been quoted here ad nauseam:

Increases in rents have been twinned by an ongoing contraction of supply... Ireland [and this is important] has witnessed record high numbers in homelessness for seven consecutive months... While the effect of the current moratorium [which will end on April Fool's Day] is still to be fully understood, it is clear that it has prevented homelessness.

This is a cruel, heartless policy from a Government that put political expedience at the top. Rather than doing this next year or in a different way, it was done with an eye to the local and European elections, without a doubt. I and colleagues have asked repeatedly what is in place. The Taoiseach casually said to let them go to Threshold or other organisations. This morning on the radio the CEO of one of those organisations told us that since Covid it is overwhelmed and only one in three people ringing in gets answered. Has it got extra resources? It has not. It is a small NGO that the Taoiseach told people who were going to be evicted to go to. That was the answer from him. I ask the Tánaiste, as Simon and as everybody on this side of the House has asked, to see sense. As Simon said this morning, it is never too late to undo a bad decision and this particular one is bad, cruel and unacceptable.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government has provided a rationale for the decision from the outset. I gave it earlier this morning. It is that an indefinite eviction ban would make the situation far worse and create a greater exodus of properties from the rental market, whereas we need more properties coming into the market. We need to create a framework whereby more people come into the market who are willing to let out their properties and we need to stop houses from exiting the market. That is the economic rationale. The Deputy may have a different view but I have not heard anybody suggesting an indefinite ban on evictions would help the housing situation or the homelessness situation in the medium term. I have not heard anybody articulate that an indefinite ban is the way to go.

The other key factor, which Members in the House will not want to accept, is the extraordinary increase in population in the past decade or so. That has been a significant factor. Notwithstanding that we built 35,000 houses last year, a 45% increase on the previous year, on which Covid had an impact, the reality is we now have more than 5 million people. Some 40,000 additional people came in via work permits last year, and that is not counting the numbers who come to work in Ireland from the European Union. We have had an exceptional situation in terms of accommodation more generally because of the war in Ukraine and because of a fivefold increase in asylum seeking in the country. If looked at objectively, it is clear, notwithstanding significant house construction – and we need to do more – why the pressures are as they are.

In the context of the lifting of the eviction ban, specific measures have been provided for and additional resources made available. Where people face eviction from a house, for example, we are saying the council should buy the house and prevent homelessness. We are expanding the cost rental scheme to give people options not to have to leave their homes and we are introducing 1,000 targeted leasing units.

We can go beyond the 1,500 tenant in situpurchases in 2023. We have overhauled the capital advance leasing facility to boost supply and we will build more social houses again this year. Without question we have made a significant change in the number of social houses that have been built over the past two and a half years. This cannot be questioned. We need to do more on the social housing front and on affordable housing and the private housing market.

Is é an rud is tábhachtaí ar fad ná go bhfuil sé mar aidhm ag an Rialtas níos mó tithíochta a chruthú agus gach aon chabhair is féidir linn a thabhairt do dhaoine atá gan teach. Bhí sé seo soiléir anuraidh, mar shampla, nuair a tháinig suas le 1,400 duine amach as homelessness. Approximately 1,491 people exited homelessness in the fourth quarter of last year. This means we are preventing a lot of homelessness and enabling people to come out of homelessness. For many of the bodies that Deputy Connolly referenced, the Housing First policy with our agencies has been a significant and effective intervention by the Government.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Nobody has asked for an indefinite ban. That is spin. I wish you would stop the spin. This is far too serious.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I wish the Tánaiste would explain to the people where they will go tomorrow. With regard to housing, this did not happen overnight. It is the direct result of Government policies for a very long time.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The announcement by the Land Development Agency yesterday is ostensibly a positive one until we look at the details. A similar announcement was made back in April 2017. That was six years ago. It was made by the then Minister, Deputy Coveney, on what public land was available and how many houses could be built on it. Each Government proceeded to rely on the market, which has made matters much worse. For social housing this is because of the housing assistance payment. I spent 17 years of my life as a member of a council. I watched the housing assistance payment being introduced by the Labour Party and Fine Gael. I watched it become the turning point in changing our housing policy. People were taken off the waiting lists. My time is up and there is so much to speak about in this but I will finish by saying I am sick and tired of the traded insults across the Dáil. I am sick and tired of the spin. It is time the Government listened to us. We are here and we represent people. We have very good ideas on how to sort out the housing problem. They are not based on the market although the market does have an important role.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not trade insults with anybody. I have not traded insults with Deputy Connolly in particular. I have responded to her courteously and with respect. I have to put this on the record. Very often comments are made as if we trade all of the insults. We do not. I accept what Deputy Connolly has just said. She has made the very interesting point that no one in the House has called for an indefinite ban on evictions. That was the rationale for lifting the eviction ban in the first instance. Now the issue is timing or the duration of an eviction ban. That seems now to be where we are.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What do you do after it is lifted?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Other parties originally said we should do it until Christmas week. Then they said until the end of January, and now there is a new iteration. In addition, I made the point earlier that I believe in building social housing. I am back in government two and a half years and 20,000 social homes have been added to the social housing stock since the Government was formed. I do not believe in an overreliance on the housing assistance payment. We need to build. The approved housing bodies have done a significantly good job in completing projects. In respect of homelessness and the Housing First strategy, many homeless organisations, such as Simon and the Peter McVerry Trust, came to us, some years back admittedly, and said we needed to change. The numbers in Housing First have expanded very considerably with very good results with regard to retention and people staying on. What is key now is that the measures provided for are effective in preventing homelessness in the very difficult situation as the eviction ban is lifted. I accept this point and that is what we are working on and focused on.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The O'Donovan family in Clonakilty has been in business for seven generations. Tom and Dena O'Donovan have been in business for 44 years running a viable town centre hotel with 21 bedrooms and two apartments, employing 70 people in the heart of Clonakilty. In 2007, they took out a business loan with AIB under a 30-year repayment plan. Several months later, Ireland had a bank meltdown and AIB hit the O'Donovans with changes to their repayment plan, reducing it from 30 years to 12 years. There were no negotiations whatsoever. Obviously, the O'Donovans objected to the way their repayments were changed by AIB. Anyone who has an agreed loan plan has the right to expect the bank to honour it. AIB railroaded ahead with the restructuring and a suggested five-year review. The O'Donovans sold family property to assist with the restructuring and continued to pay the new sum. Astonishingly, the O'Donovans discovered that, unknown to them, their loan had been sold to a vulture fund, Everyday Finance. AIB then closed their bank account in Clonakilty and transferred the account to Fermoy, taking it from ten doors away to 90 km away. In anyone's view this was to stop the O'Donovans from engaging with the local bank.

As far as I know, by law a bank can only sell on a performing loan to a third party that offers the same facility. AIB did not do this. The O'Donovans tried to engage with Everyday Finance but it made it clear that it is not interested in piecemeal repayments, only large lump sums. At one stage it suggested throwing a few million up on the table. As the O'Donovans are unable to figure what they now owe Everyday Finance their accountant advised the family to make no further repayments. In all this time there has been no communication. The O'Donovans are led to believe the loan was purchased for approximately €365,000. To try to start engagement with Everyday Finance the O'Donovans offered €800,000. That was well over double what the loan was bought for. This was rejected by Everyday Finance. Subsequent increased offers have been rejected. No gesture to engage has been afforded to the O'Donovan family other than rejection to their offers one after another.

In 2022, a receiver was appointed who sent a representative to one of the clothing shop premises belonging to the O'Donovans, in full breach of the general data protection regulation, GDPR, and in front of customers and staff. The man, who did not identify himself, demanded that people would have to leave the building as it was in receivership. The O'Donovan family contacted the receiver to engage, simply asking what they have to pay. The only engagement they got back was a visit from the receiver with a BER engineer, a valuer and a photographer. It treated a family in business in Clonakilty for 44 years like dirt.

The O'Donovans have since received a letter demanding all incomes from tenants. In all this time the only crime of the O'Donovans was to owe too little on properties valued at little more than they owed. Their bad luck was they trusted AIB and entered a business agreement with it which AIB broke. Will the Tánaiste meet the O'Donovan family? As Tánaiste of the country and a member of the Government with a major shareholding in AIB, will he launch an immediate investigation into how the family and their business have been treated and ensure no further action takes place until the matter is thoroughly investigated?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Collins for raising this issue. I am not aware of the background or detail of this individual case and the O'Donovan family. As Deputy Collins has said, they have been a long-standing business family in Clonakilty down through the years, providing a very good service to the people of Clonakilty and surrounding hinterlands. I am at a difficulty in terms of responding in respect of the detail of the commercial relationship between the family and AIB and, subsequently, I believe Deputy Collins said, Everyday Finance.

I will meet the family but I cannot offer or promise anything at this late stage given it has gone from one bank to another to receivership. I am not clear what legal advice the family may have received in respect of what Deputy Collins has said. Prima facieit suggests a breach of the law, maybe. I am not in a position to say this because this is the first detailed presentation I have heard on this. Deputy Collins has raised it now without notice. Ordinarily, people engage to see whether such issues can be resolved. I will leave it at that. It is not for me. I am not in a position to direct that all actions cease. I do not have that executive power in the office that I hold. There have been many cases over the past decade were issues did get resolved where there were challenges and difficulties of the type referenced by Deputy Collins. I am not clear as to why this did not occur in respect of this particular family business.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Tánaiste for his offer to meet the family. That would be greatly appreciated and taken up. He received correspondence to his office. The family told me they sent full documentation and correspondence to the Tánaiste three weeks ago. Perhaps the Tánaiste did not have time to look at it. I respect that. That happens to every one of us. I would appreciate it if the Tánaiste did look at it. To date, he has not responded. The family have been at the very heart of Clonakilty all their lives. They have done no wrong and their lives have been ruined by the incompetence of many. Their agony cannot continue.

Too many livelihoods depend on the O'Donovan family. Clonakilty and its surrounds depend on this family. I spoke to a prominent businessperson in Clonakilty last week. I asked him, if I were to organise a protest in support of the family, would 5,000 people turn up. The answer he gave me was that 10,000 would turn up at the flick of a finger because this family are so highly respected in this town.

Will the Tánaiste personally meet theO'Donovan family like he said he will? As the State is AIB's largest stakeholder, the State cannot turn its back here. If it does, it is turning its back on west Cork. The State has directors on the board of this bank. I ask the Tánaiste to use every mechanism of the State to broker a solution to suit all parties to bring this sad and shocking tale to an end.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That correspondence has not been brought my attention. I am not clear as to which office it was sent. I put it this to the Deputy through the Chair. Why did he not come to me three weeks ago?

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The family have contacted me.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am just asking the Deputy. There is a way of doing things.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Fianna Fáil's Deputy in west Cork knows about it so I presumed he was here.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not mind the Deputy raising it. I am just asking him. He raised it publicly.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am going to the Tánaiste now.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy said in his second supplementary question that I had received correspondence three weeks ago. I have not seen that correspondence. I am not sure to which office it was sent. I will check that after this business. Many Deputies in the House, irrespective of parties or party positions, often come to me or tell me there is an issue and ask whether me or my office can do anything about it. I would respectfully say that the Deputy could have availed of that opportunity. He has raised it now, however. We will take it up from there.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Tánaiste. That concludes Leaders' Questions.