Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence given that the ceremonial handover of two inshore patrol vessels from New Zealand has taken place, the estimated additional crew, by rank, required to put these vessels to sea; and the duration and location of any familiarisation and training for crew before they can enter service. [13837/23]

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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Following the ceremonial handover of two inshore patrol vessels from New Zealand, will the Minister update the House on the estimated additional crew, by rank, required to put these vessels to sea and the duration and location of any familiarisation and training for crew before they can enter service?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for the question. My priority as Minister for Defence is to ensure the operational capability of the Defence Forces is maintained to the greatest extent possible to enable them to carry out their roles as assigned by Government.

Two inshore patrol vessels were purchased for €26 million on a government-to-government basis from New Zealand to replace the now decommissioned LÉ Orlaand LÉ Ciara. The ceremonial handover of the vessels took place in Auckland last week, representing the culmination of a year-long project to regenerate and modify the vessels' operational seaworthiness standards. The work was undertaken by the New Zealand Defence Force and overseen by the Irish Naval Service and Department of Defence. Both vessels are expected to complete their acceptance testing and commence transportation to Ireland by the end of this month. With a transit time of at least a month, they are expected to arrive in Cork in May. On arrival, the vessels will undergo a comprehensive programme of works, including crew familiarisation and training, which will take place in the vicinity of Cork Harbour and the naval base at Haulbowline. It is expected that these vessels will be in a position to commence operational service in 2024.

The vessels have fully automated control and navigation systems, a powerful engine, modern communications and surveillance systems, active stabilisers and comfortable accommodation. Both ships are capable of undertaking boarding operations and surveillance. The core crew complement of each vessel will be between 20 and 24 suitably qualified and experienced personnel. The specific ranks and specialisations of these personnel will be an operational matter.

The Defence Forces have reviewed requirements and capabilities and consider that the vessels are suitable for Irish operations in the Irish Sea on the east and south-east coast.

Notwithstanding the current staffing challenges, the Naval Service continues to carry out all roles assigned by Government, including fishery protection and maritime security operations surveillance in the Irish exclusive economic zone, and their ongoing capacity to do so is carefully monitored. I am advised that the fleet is managed and maintained to ensure maximum availability to meet operational requirements.

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister will be most aware that this week the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence met the Chief of Staff, Lieutenant General Seán Clancy, and some of the general staff. The Chief of Staff confirmed that the current enlisted membership is 7,917, again evidencing the haemorrhaging of staff that we see from the Defence Forces. That equates to 83% of the establishment figure of 9,500.

The Minister has said - it was confirmed to the committee - that the increase in established numbers under the high-level action plan for the report of the Commission on the Defence Forces is to include civilians. What percentage balance is the Minister examining between enlisted and civilian personnel specifically with regard to the Naval Service? Highly experienced and highly trained enlisted members have left the Defence Forces because of current pay and conditions. Is the Minister expecting civilians to enter into and support the Naval Service on those same conditions and rates of pay?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Clarke should acknowledge that the pay and conditions have improved significantly over the past two years, particularly for new recruits, and compare favourably with other employments and occupations. Those coming in after the leaving certificate enjoy a base rate of approximately €37,000. The basic pay has increased and there have been other improvements. There will be further improvements.

The first priority is to recruit additional personnel into the Naval Service, Army and Air Corps. That is the overarching priority. Second, I visited Haulbowline recently and I saw in one particular area of operations, fisheries, a very successful mix of civilian and Naval Service personnel in terms of certain skill sets in which civilians were able to support Naval Service personnel. There is very good synergy and it is working well. We should be open to the idea of having a good mix of civilian and military personnel, where appropriate. That makes absolute sense, particularly in a full employment environment where there is a significant degree of competition for people.

Sorca Clarke (Longford-Westmeath, Sinn Fein)
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I note the Minister did not answer the question. Will enlisted members and civilians be on the same conditions and rates of pay?

The Defence Forces had a recorded turnover rate of 10.72% in 2022, the latest date for which figures are available. We have seen amendments to the sea service commitment but, at the same time, people have lost out on that payment because ships were essentially tied up in dock for reasons outside the control of Naval Service members.

It has also been reported that a plan has been presented to the Government for approval regarding the potential of an Irish Naval Service ship to deploy to North Africa to police the Libyan arms embargo in June. Due to last for seven weeks, this would be the first international deployment of the Naval Service since 2018 when it participated in the Mediterranean rescue missions. It is also reported that it is most likely to have a positive impact on recruitment, which is to be welcomed, and also the retention crisis. Can the Minister confirm if those plans have gone to the Government and been approved? If not, at what stage are they?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will be bringing proposals in respect of that matter to the Government shortly.

I have met the flag officer and visited Haulbowline. I met the Chief of Staff and his team in respect of recruitment and retention issues, more specifically in respect of the Naval Service because the numbers are not what they should be and need to be significantly increased.

On pay and conditions, there are different categories right across the board. It depends on who is recruited and to what position people are recruited in terms of pay for specific duties or specific roles. That has always been the case and will remain the case in the context of any civilians who are recruited to give support to and work within our services more generally.