Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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16. To ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine if Coillte will be able to avail of grants and premia under his proposed new forestry programme; and if he intends to issue a new shareholder letter of expectations to Coillte in 2023. [11935/23]

Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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Have the Minister of State or the Minister sought clarity from the Commission as to whether Coillte will be able to avail of grants and premia? Has the Minister obtained any independent legal advice about the matter? Will Coillte be able to avail of grants and premia under the revised state aid rules? If so, will this be provided for under the new forestry programme?

Pippa Hackett (Green Party)
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I thank Deputy Browne for the question. Historically, afforestation premia were provided for under European Council regulation 2080/92 and were available to both farmers and non-farmers. Lower maximum rates applied in the case of non-farmers. Within this regulation, non-farmers were defined as any other private, natural or legal person. I draw the Deputy's attention to the landmark 2003 ECJ judgment for case No. 339-00 where it was held that, "such an entity, [Coillte Teoranta] as a public undertaking is not eligible to receive aid to compensate for a loss of income arising from afforestation".

Ireland’s current afforestation premia are offered under the guidelines for state aid in the agricultural and forestry sectors and in rural areas. These guidelines were revised last year and the updated guidelines have now come into effect from the 1 January 2023. Those revised guidelines, under section 2.1.1 - aid for afforestation and creation of woodland - and section 2.3 - aid for forest-environment and climate services and forest conservation - now include the possibility of public landowners to avail as beneficiaries without restrictions. My Department is currently seeking legal advice on this matter and due consideration will then be given to its application under the forestry programme.

The code of practice for the governance of State bodies requires that Government Departments should ensure they have written oversight agreements with State bodies under their aegis that clearly define the terms of the State body’s relationship with the relevant Minister and parent Department. For commercial State bodies the oversight agreement between the relevant Minister and parent Department and the State body is the shareholder expectation letter. A shareholder letter of expectation issued to Coillte on 2 June 2022. It is published on my Department's website and available at gov.ie. Any decision as to the timing and the content of the next shareholder letter of expectation needs to be discussed and agreed with the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform as co-shareholder in Coillte.

Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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It has been raised numerous times with the Minister of State, Senator Hackett, that the issue of state aid and Coillte was a matter that should have been addressed when state aid was being revised, and not after it happened. The Department knew negotiations with Gresham House were taking place and at that time it was looking for the alternative way to benefit from the state aid. Why then did the Minister of State and the other Minister at that time not seek clarity about the potential beneficiaries under the draft revisions before the Gresham House deal was signed off, and before state aid rules were published in December 2022? The Minister of State is again dragging her heels on revising it now when the deal is closed. Why was it not done before that deal was closed?

Pippa Hackett (Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy. It is not really a matter of the Department revising anything in relation to the state aid rules. We had to wait until 1 January when the guidelines had come into effect. It looks like public landowners may be able to avail as beneficiaries, without restrictions, of these state aids. Again, we are seeking legal advice on this issue. I understand the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine had a positive and thorough engagement with Coillte last Wednesday, where part of this was discussed. In that, it was highlighted that Coillte had engaged with the Commission in 2019 in relation to any issues around state aid. It was clearly told "No" at that stage. It is welcome now in 2023 that we might well be able to support Coillte to afforest.

Martin Browne (Tipperary, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State. We had a meeting with Coillte last week, and believe me it was not as clear cut as the Minister of State is telling us here. It was like drawing teeth trying to get answers out of some of them. If the rewarding of the revised state aid was such that the Department has since felt compelled to seek clarity from the Commission, will the Minister of State tell us if revisions around the potential beneficiaries of the afforestation grants and the premia under the revised state aid rules were entirely different to the provisions included in a draft on state aid rules received in January of last year?

Will the Minister of State give us clarity on when the Minister expects a response to his request for clarity from the Commission, and his request for legal advice on the matter? Depending on the advice the Minister gets, is the Department prepared to issue a new statement of expectations to Coillte that the Department does not want to engage in this type of investment? The Minister said it is not his preferred type of deal. Is the Minister of State prepared to look for that legal advice and to make it quite clear to the likes of Coillte that this is once-off deal?

Pippa Hackett (Green Party)
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I reassure the Deputy that my Department is currently in the process of seeking that legal advice on this matter. Certainly, due consideration will be given to its application under the next forestry programme.

With regard to a reissue of a shareholder letter of expectation, that is an issue we will consider, but we must discuss that and agree that with the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform, who is the other shareholder in Coillte. Legal advice is being sought and when we get that we will sit down and discuss it further.

Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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As we have one minute on the clock perhaps Deputy Crowe would like to put his question very quickly and we can get a very quick response from the Minister of State.