Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I want to be associated with your remarks, a Cheann Comhairle, and to welcome the ambassador to the Chamber. It is really good to have the British Ambassador present. I look forward to building relations between Ireland and the United Kingdom in the period ahead, in particular as the Windsor Framework is implemented.

On this matter, what Deputy McDonald is trying to do here is to create a false narrative, a false choice, and as often the case, a divisive one. It is not about renters versus landlords or balancing the rights of one against the rights of others. Renters need landlords and landlords need renters. One of the many problems we have in Ireland with our housing system is that we do not have enough landlords. Given our growing population, we probably need tens of thousands more properties available for people to rent. What happens when landlords leave the market? Rents go up, fewer properties are available and renters lose out, especially those who need to move, those who are young and are renting for the first time, people who are coming to Ireland to work who need somewhere to rent and also people coming back to Ireland from abroad - returning emigrants, of which there are tens of thousands every year. What we have seen in recent years is more than 40,000 small landlords leave the market and very few have entered. There will always be landlords leaving the market and there will always be a certain number entering, but we need now to stem the flow of small landlords in particular leaving the market and to increase the flow of new landlords coming in. We will not be able to turn this around unless we do that. That is why we see long queues of people any time a property is available for rent, who are hoping to view it and that it can be the place they can call home. That is why a property advertised on a website is taken down almost an hour or two later. That is also why we see rents for new tenancies being so high, relative to existing tenancies. It is because there are not enough landlords.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are not enough properties available. What we need to do is stem the tide of small landlords leaving the market and increase the number of new landlords coming into the market. That is what the Government wants to do. We are going to do four things to make the situation better.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Taoiseach believe what he reads out?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

First, we are going to build more social housing.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Second, we are going to ramp up cost rental.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Let us have the figures.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Third, we are going to buy properties from landlords where the tenant is a social housing tenant and he or she has been served a notice to quit.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Seven were purchased in Dublin city.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The time is up.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Fourth, we are going to develop and build a budget package to help landlords and help renters even more so than has been the case. Let me expand on that a little better. Last year, roughly 8,000 new social homes were built in Ireland. As the Opposition acknowledged yesterday, or at least one person in the Opposition did, that is the highest since 1975, the highest in my lifetime, and we are going to increase it even more this year.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is shameful.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are going to try to get towards 12,000 additional social homes. That will make a difference.

The second thing we are going to do is to ramp up cost rental. It is a new form of tenancy and public housing, developed by the previous Government and being implemented by this one. That will help people who are above the income limits for social housing. We are going to buy up more rental properties where the tenant is a housing assistance payment, HAP, or rental accommodation scheme, RAS, tenant. That means if the landlord is selling up we are empowering and funding local authorities, all of which are not controlled by Government parties by the way, to purchase those properties, and they should.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Go on out of that. That is a stupid comment.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are also developing a further budget package to help tenants and to help landlords. It is not about one versus the other. As I stated, the Deputy is trying to create a divisive and false narrative that it is landlords versus renters and renters versus landlords.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Jesus, Mary and Joseph.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach could answer the question.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have answered the Deputy's question.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

People are homeless and the Taoiseach is talking about the budget.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Members should be quiet please.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have answered the Deputy's question.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Members should please be quiet.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sinn Féin is back to its old ways again. When we ask them about their finances, we get a deafening silence.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are out of time.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They run and hide.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are homeless children.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach is losing the argument.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

When I try to answer their questions, which I did try to do, they try to shout me down. What sort of party is that?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is no one shouting you down, Leo. Relax.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Could we listen to each other, respectfully?

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Yes.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Members can disagree all they like. Deputy McDonald has the floor.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle. That is excellent. That was very well said. The only false narrative being spun here is that the housing emergency is the fault of landlords. Let me scotch that. It is not. Responsibility for this emergency lies fairly and squarely at the feet of the Taoiseach and his Government.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is the narrative. The choice here is between having a roof over your head or not; having rent that you can afford or not; having a Government that will stand up and defend renters or not; having a Government with the basic intelligence and cop-on to know that one does not create more uncertainty for renters at a time when supply is that tight and rents are so high and people are to the pin of their collar.

People are afraid now. There are working families who are afraid of what lies ahead. I asked the Taoiseach to state very clearly what a family should do, in the coming weeks and months, when they get a notice to quit and when they are evicted. Where does that working family go? I would like the Taoiseach to answer that question.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I answered the Deputy's question. Perhaps she could not hear the answer because she was too busy shouting me down, or the people behind her were too busy shouting me down. The options include social housing. We are going to build more social housing than ever before. We are ramping up cost rental, which is another option. A third option is we are going to purchase 1,500 homes where the landlord is selling up and there is a social housing tenant in situ. Fourth, we are developing a further budget package to help renters and landlords.

The Deputy stood up there and created a false narrative and another straw man. She said landlords are not to blame for the housing crisis, as if somehow anybody on the Government benches ever made that argument. She is the one who has been consistently demonising small landlords and institutional landlords, not us, so she should not make that false argument. The Deputy kind of makes out that somehow Sinn Féin would be able to solve this crisis. Look to the North. I know she hates it when we talk about the North, but look to the North.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

If you believe that, stand aside, call an election and let us get on with the job.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Let me finish, Deputy. I know you hate the truth. Look to the North, where we have had a Sinn Féin finance minister and a Sinn Féin housing minister.

David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are proud of them.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Do you know how much social housing you built in Northern Ireland last year? Do you know, Deputy?

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There was no assembly last year.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Under 2,000 in the past year - there was an assembly - much less per capita than in this State. You say that small landlords are not to blame for the crisis. Fine. What is your proposal? You want to put an extra tax on small landlords.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have plenty of proposals.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

To make it even worse-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Stop it.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----you say you care about first-time buyers. What do you want to do?

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Shame on you, Taoiseach.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Stop it. This is a serious issue for families who will face eviction.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You want to take away the help-to-buy scheme. The reason you consistently shout me down when I try to answer your questions is because you cannot handle the answers-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You have made a conscious decision to increase homelessness and it is shameful.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

------because you know they are true.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a conscious decision to increase homelessness.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You have enough money for speculators.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please, Deputies.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, I really need to put on the record of the Dáil that what we see here is a party that really just cannot handle honest democratic debate.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We cannot handle rising homelessness.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Okay.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They will not answer questions.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not a point of order.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On a point of order, this is a Government that cannot deal with the fact that it has made a decision to increase homelessness.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Doherty, you are out of order.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Government is out of order.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is Leader's Questions. Your leader has posed a question. You are not the leader yet. Now-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Sorry, a Cheann Comhairle, the Taoiseach made a point of order and questioned the democratic capacities or ability of this party. I might remind the Taoiseach that on the last occasion that we went to the polls, this party and these benches secured more votes than his own.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Thank you, Deputy McDonald.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We are perfectly entitled to represent the people we represent-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is a political point, not a point of order.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and to do so robustly. That is at the heart of democratic debate.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

A Cheann Comhairle-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is a valid point of order, actually.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Well, if it is a valid point of order, I will hear it.

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

So are these the alternatives?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputies, please.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy betrayed the truth once again.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not a point of order.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Her party scored 24.5% of the vote-----

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

More votes.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and they think that gives them right to shout everyone else down.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not a point of order.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is not democratic.

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Are these the alternatives - that outfit or this?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I call Deputy Bacik.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can we show Deputy Bacik the respect that we have not shown the Taoiseach, please?

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. It is unedifying to see those two alternatives portrayed. It is good we live in a democracy where there are other choices.

Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Hear, hear.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Guím Lá Idirnáisiúnta na mBan sona ar gach éinne sa Teach. Is iad ár leanaí todhchaí na tíre seo, ach ní féidir leis na hoibrithe a thugann cúnamh agus oideachas dár leanaí óga tithíocht a choimeád de bharr a bpá íseal agus an cosc a stop an Rialtas inné. Níl aon áit ar fáil do go leor leanaí i gceantair áirithe agus tá an iomarca airgid á íoc ag tuismitheoirí atá ag streachailt cheana féin.

Today, on International Women's Day, I welcome the announcement that a referendum on gender equality will be held in November. It is something I have worked on for a long time. As Chairperson of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Gender Equality, I look forward to campaigning to bring the Constitution into the 21st century, to delete the sexist language around women and mothers, to replace it with gender-neutral language recognising care, and to see an inclusive definition of family introduced. We will welcome these changes, and we in the Labour Party look forward to campaigning and playing a leading role to ensure they are made.

Today I want to raise two related feminist issues: housing and childcare. While we need to insert recognition of care into the Constitution, we need to ensure care policies do not work against women in this country today. An experience of a young woman, a constituent in contact with my office, illustrates how current Government policy on housing and care is failing her and her family. She and her partner welcomed a baby boy into their lives a year ago, which was wonderful news. However, as renters, they are being failed by the State's housing policy, and as young parents they are being failed by the State's childcare policy. They are faced with dire insecurity of tenure and are forced to stand in queues to seek a decent home for themselves and their child. The cost of childcare means they do not even know if she will be able to return to work because they cannot find a childcare facility with space near to where they currently live. At her local breastfeeding group, she was told she should have put her son on a childcare waiting list when she was still pregnant. Because they are renting with no security of tenure, when the current eviction ban lifts, which the Taoiseach's Government shamefully refused to extend yesterday, they do not know where they will live so they cannot put their names on a local waiting list. This Government is letting down this young woman and her family.

On International Women's Day, I want to know what the Government proposes to do to ensure protection for my constituent, her partner and child, and for all of the families in their situation. Will the Government reinstate the eviction ban and move meaningfully towards a universal system of affordable childcare for all? In addition to the welcome referendum on gender equality, will the Government commit to holding a referendum on housing to ensure we see a right to a home within the text of our Constitution, our Bunreacht na hÉireann?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As I announced earlier with the Minister, Deputy Foley, and the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, we will have a referendum, or indeed perhaps a number of referendums, in November to modernise our Constitution to enshrine in it equal rights between men and women, to recognise care in our Constitution and to modernise the definition of family so that it is not just families based on marriage that are seen as families through the eyes of our Constitution. Many families are led by grandparents, guardians and often by lone parents. We need to change our Constitution in that regard. We hope and expect to have wording by the early summer and be in a position to have the legislation done in September and have the vote in November. I particularly thank the committee which the Deputy chaired for the really good work it did in that regard. The wording proposed by the committee and the options it came up with will be extremely helpful in getting this done this year. While sometimes in Ireland we may feel we experience referendum fatigue, I actually do not think we have had a referendum in four or five years now, so constitutional change is overdue, especially in this area. We are keen to make it happen.

To answer specifically the Deputy's questions on childcare and tenants' rights, we as a Government have worked very hard to improve quality, capacity and cost when it comes to childcare. The Deputy will be aware that, in January, the vast majority of parents saw a 20% or 25% reduction in childcare fees. We are keen to repeat that in the budget if the public finances allow. That would mean this will be the Government that reduced childcare costs by half. That is not a small thing. I know it will be very welcome to many parents who have been struggling to pay the bills. We are improving quality all the time, which is very important too. It is not just about childcare but also about early years education. It is important we see it in that context. We are working to increase capacity. We know that is a challenge. Of course, as the cost of something is reduced, understandably the demand increases, and that puts pressure on capacity. That is something we always have to take into account.

On giving more people security of tenure, we have changed the law around renters' rights. Renters now get many months' notice before they are asked to quit. That gives them much more time to find an alternative place to rent. The problem is there are not enough alternative places to rent because there are too few landlords in the market. We need to get them back in and scale up cost rental from the Government side. All new tenancies are tenancies of indefinite duration. We cannot apply that retrospectively, but all new tenancies are tenancies of indefinite duration. That is important too. We have also brought in the rent pressure zones and the rent tax credit.

Ivana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Taoiseach for the commitment on the referendum. That is welcome. However, we need to see Government policies on care and housing that recognise the difficulties and discrimination still faced by so many women, in particular. It is not just parents who are being failed. While there has been a welcome reduction in fees, there is a huge problem now for childcare and early years professionals.

I met one young early years professional last week who told me she is forced to emigrate to Brisbane in Australia to work in her chosen profession, where childcare is valued, where she will receive decent pay and conditions and, critically, where she will be able to afford a mortgage and buy a home of her own. That is a right and prospect she is not being afforded in this country, where we see Government failure on housing, despite the moves the Taoiseach described on renters’ rights. It is simply not good enough. The cliff edge faced by many renters as the eviction ban comes to an end is likely to lead to a tsunami of evictions. We have heard this from homeless organisations and organisations working with renters. We hear it from our constituents all the time. They face this frightening prospect. What can the Taoiseach do for them? Will he be putting in place another eviction ban in the winter? He has to, because the policies his Government is pursuing are not delivering for renters.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On childcare professionals, we have an employment regulation order in place that has improved pay, terms and conditions for such professionals. It gives them a proper incremental scale and a body of workers’ rights beyond the minimum floor prescribed in legislation. I think that is helping in recruiting and retaining childcare professionals. Last time I visited a childcare facility in Blanchardstown in my constituency, it was great to see so many people who had come from other parts of the world because the terms and conditions are better in our childcare system. Many came from Spain, for example. It was good to see people attracted to Ireland by the opportunities, education and terms and conditions they benefit from.

There is a programme for Government commitment to establish a commission on care to look at this issue in the round. For administrative reasons, we can only have so many commissions on the go. The housing commission will finish its work in the summer and we intend to establish a commission on care and have it up and running, certainly this year and it is hoped before the middle of this year.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Tá fadhb ann. Tá tiománaithe óga ag fanacht ró-fhada lena gcuid tástálacha a dhéanamh agus níl sé sin ceart.

Last week, the temporary driving test centre in Marian Park closed, leaving 2,717 customers who have applied for a driving test in Drogheda having to transfer their application to an alternative centre, such as Navan or Dundalk. Bear in mind that, at the end of December, the estimated waiting time for Drogheda was 38 weeks; in Navan, 32 weeks; and in Dundalk, 27 weeks. The centre in Marian Park was a temporary solution for the past two years to deliver driving tests in Drogheda. The Road Safety Authority, RSA, knew the lease was expiring and was aware of the opposition of the residents of Marian Park to an extension. The authority failed to find a permanent site, and local learners will be the ones affected as they are left in limbo waiting on a test.

This will cause financial hardship to young people. With no experience driving in a different town or county, they will have to pay for additional lessons and the cost of fuel, as well as incurring high insurance costs as a provisional driver. Not only that, the emissions this extra travel will produce are an environmental disaster.

I understand the RSA has said applicants will not lose their place in the queue and instead will slot into the queue relative to other candidates who have already applied to the new centre. However, with backlogs and long waiting times in all named test centres, working conditions and staff retention issues are another worry.

I understand there are currently only four testers in Navan for a population of 223,000. These testers work on a contract basis. Once a tester has been in the position for four years, they have to be made permanent, but I know of testers who were let go before they made the four-year mark.

We need to look at the council-owned site in Mell, which has previously been proposed and assessed by the RSA and Louth County Council. This break in continuity of test service in Drogheda is not good enough. I strongly believe this site fits the bill for test service delivery. We need to seriously invest funding into the chaos surrounding testing throughout Ireland.

My constituents in Louth and east Meath deserve better. They deserve timely tests, whether they be driving tests or NCT tests, so that they are road safe and their lives are not impacted. People on provisional licences cannot drive alone. What if they need to drive to work? A constituent came to my office last week who is in a very serious position in respect of this issue. Being able to drive opens up employment and social benefits.

I understand there are several factors causing huge delays, but everything must be done to reduce these long waiting times for learners. We must invest in a new testing centre, as well as in the sector overall, to reduce wait times so constituents do not incur additional costs or disadvantages because of testing delays.

The RSA announced in December 2022 that it had found a suitable site, and the responsibility for the opening of the new centre rests with its facilities management team. What happened? Will the Taoiseach please clarify the current situation regarding finding a new site for the Drogheda test centre? As I said, 2,717 people are on the waiting list, which is unfair and unacceptable. I ask the Ministers for Finance and Transport to please invest in enhancing these services. It is a requirement for road safety, and for some, it is a requirement for their livelihood.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta as a cheist. Aontaím go bhfuil fadhb ann leis an ionad tástála tiomána i nDroichead Átha. Ba mhaith liom an fhadhb a réiteach agus ionad nua a chruthú sa bhaile sin.

The Road Safety Authority has statutory responsibility for the national driving test service, including the locations and operation of driving test centres. A commitment was given last year to close the test centre in Marian Park, Drogheda, by the end of February this year as the leased expired. The site was always a temporary solution while the RSA tried to find a more suitable location. That work is ongoing. The RSA has reviewed several options in the area but has not to date found a suitable alternative location. It is important the site of the test centre does not in itself create unnecessary disruption for communities, particularly in counties Louth and Meath.

The 3,000 customers who applied for a test in Drogheda will be advised that the Drogheda test centre is now closed and will be asked to transfer to Navan, Dundalk or another centre. If, after two weeks, they have not moved their application, they will be integrated into the Dundalk waiting list from the date on which they applied to Drogheda. They will not lose their place in the queue and will slot into the queue relative to candidates who have applied in Dundalk. Dundalk is a much larger centre with more driver testers assigned to it.

The current average waiting time for an invitation to a driving test is 21 weeks, far above the service level agreement of ten weeks. The waiting time in Drogheda is much worse: it was 43 weeks at the beginning of the month. It is not a tenable situation when people have to wait almost a year to get their driving test. This is driven by increased demand. Applications for driving tests have increased 30% since the pandemic. The Department of Transport is working closely with the RSA to try to relieve this. The Department has sanctioned an increase in the number of permanent driver testers from 100 to 130. Demand for tests has gone up by 27%; we will increase the number of testers by 30%. We believe that will get us on top of the backlog.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the Taoiseach knows, one of the most important things is achieving a driving licence. In three massive towns, Dundalk, Drogheda and Navan, the situation is getting worse. I got an email yesterday from a young man in Navan and he is saying the exact same thing. He is getting on and trying to apply for a test. Every time he is on, they tell him to come back in another week and another week. I passed my driving test when I was 18 and it opened up so many opportunities. There are nearly 3,000 people waiting in Drogheda, there are two other big towns in the region, and the Taoiseach is telling me this will help the situation, but it will get worse and worse.

This has been going on for two years. The RSA knew what was happening and that, in two years’ time, it would have to find another place. It has been looking with Louth County Council and has found a site. It is only the stroke of a pen, a very simple thing. This young fella from Meath has lost an opportunity to get a job. He has to defer going to college. He has no way of getting transport. The situation could be sorted out in a matter of days. I plead with the Taoiseach to sort out the situation for these young people and the 3,000 people stuck in Drogheda.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I passed my driving test at 18 as well, though it was my second attempt. A little bit like my electoral record, it took two attempts to succeed. I understand the importance of having a full licence. It is about being able to get a job, as the Deputy said, being able to get around, get to college and do whatever people need to do. It is a major restriction on people’s freedom not to be able to have a full licence. I do not accept, though, that a change is just the stroke of a pen. I am a former Minister for road safety and have met family members of people killed by an unaccompanied driver.

Unfortunately, it is a simple fact that people who have not passed their driving test are more at risk of harming themselves or others. An increase in injuries, deaths and disabilities caused by driving accidents on the road would be a worse outcome than people having to wait 20 or 40 weeks for a test. It is not a nice choice to have to make, but it is the right one. We will do everything we can to get the waiting list down, and the 30% increase in testers will make a difference.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The driving test centre was at a temporary location for two years.

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Taoiseach, on International Women's Day, as it happens, for a commitment from this Government to bring forward legislation, and it needs to be emergency legislation, to ensure records and all relevant documents relating to Magdalen laundries and residents of those institutions are preserved and protected and that it would be a criminal offence to alter, destroy or dispose of any of these documents. There is an ongoing context to this, but the reason I raise the issue this morning specifically is related to the launch of a book yesterday, entitled A Dublin Magdalene Laundry: Donnybrook and Church-State Power in Ireland. It was edited by Dr. Mark Coen, Dr. Katherine O'Donnell and Dr. Maeve O'Rourke.

The specific issue relates to the fact that following a decision by the Information Commissioner, on appeal, to allow a Magdalen survivor access archives under freedom of information, FOI, Dr. O'Rourke requested all records relating to Donnybrook Magdalen laundry be made available under FOI. The response from the Department of the Taoiseach was that searching through the archive for certain records would be so expensive, it could not be countenanced under FOI and that editors should make individual requests to various Departments, which originally gave their records to the interdepartmental committee to establish the facts of State involvement with the Magdalen laundries. All except one of the FOI requests were refused. The excuses were as long as your arm. How did the editors of this book get access to all of this important information? It was by chance. I do not have time to go through it, but it took extraordinary dedication and commitment and an element of luck to source it. This should never be the case.

Will the Government consider bringing forward a Bill similar, in intent at least, to the Preservation of Documents (Historical Institutions) Bill, which was the final legislation agreed by the Northern Ireland Assembly last March, on a cross-party basis? It is really important legislation. We need similar legislation here now. We have a chaotic and totally unsatisfactory situation at present with regard to these records. Some dioceses allow access and others do not. It is grossly unfair to survivors. However, it is essential this State steps up and takes full and final responsibility to make up just a little for the responsibility it abrogated at that time. I am asking the Taoiseach to ensure these records and this information are preserved and that it would be a criminal offence for any person or institution to seek to destroy or dispose of this information.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. We are giving consideration to further legislation in this area, although it will not be emergency legislation. We already have the National Archives Act and there are already offences with regard to the destruction of public documents, but I appreciate that does not apply beyond the State sector. My understanding is that the archive is not held in the Department of the Taoiseach anymore. It has not been held there for some time. That may have been why people were wrongly given the runaround when it came to FOI. The archive is held by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth at present.

The McAleese archive, which relates to mother and baby institutions, will be preserved as part of a major work under way to establish a national centre for research and remembrance. Last March, Government approved a plan for a national centre for research and remembrance which will be located on the site of the former Magdalen laundry on Sean McDermott Street in Dublin 1. The centre will stand as a site of conscience and will be a national memorial to honour equally all those who were resident in industrial schools, reformatories, Magdalen laundries, mother and baby institutions and all other institutions. It is shocking that, back in the 1950s and 1960s, more than 10% of the population was living in one form of institution or another.

The centre will comprise a museum and exhibition space, the development of which will be led by the National Museum of Ireland, a research centre and a repository of records relating to institutional trauma in the 20th century that will form part of the National Archives. There will also be a place for reflection and remembrance. As part of the development, there will be social housing and educational and community facilities, and it will be a valuable addition to the social and economic infrastructure in Dublin's north-east inner city. One unique aspect of the central repository will be the inclusion of personal testimonies of survivors, allowing their lived experience to be formally recognised and kept forever. The inclusion of personal testimonies will ensure the lived experience of survivors will be captured in their own words for publication and archiving in the national centre.

The initiative will be underpinned by statute - there will be a law on it - and will operate on a voluntary basis, with personal accounts received and utilised only with the consent of participants. Work on the creation of the central repository of records in the national centre is being led by the National Archives. This work is supported by a dedicated legal and legislative subgroup, which is considering whether any additional legislative measures are needed to enable the creation and management of the archive. It is also worth pointing out that the Birth Information and Tracing Act already provides an important foundation for the creation of this repository because it mandates the safeguarding of relevant records, which is now law. The Act was commenced on 3 October 2022.

Marian Harkin (Sligo-Leitrim, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach did not really answer my question. I asked him about the legislation, which I certainly categorise as emergency legislation, while the Taoiseach may not, but he told me about the national centre for research and remembrance. What will be on the shelves? What about all these gaps in information? The Taoiseach talked about the fact it is a site of conscience. It is time we examined our conscience and made some reparation for the sins that were committed in our name for this State. The commission of investigation recommended that all records be given to the National Archives. I am not asking the Taoiseach to do anything except to protect these records and ensure anybody who tries to interfere with, damage or destroy them will be guilty of a criminal offence. We can have the discussion and debate afterwards. Will he give the commitment this morning that those records will be protected by this State?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will come back to the Deputy with a more detailed reply, because the question is valid and I may not be able to answer it fully today. It is intended we will have all records that are held by the State in the repository and any personal testimonies, subject to the consent of the people involved. The National Archives Act already protects documents, as does the Birth Information and Tracing Act, but perhaps that does not cover all the documents to which the Deputy referred, that is, those that are held in private ownership. Perhaps that is what the Deputy is zeroing in on. I ask the Deputy to allow me to look into that and come back to her with a proper answer as soon as I can.