Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his plans to address recent reports that two further ships are to be taken out of service due to the lack of sailors to man the vessels; the progress made to date on measures to retain members in the Permanent Defence Force; the overall strength of the PDF in each of the past six months; when he expects the authorised strength level to be achieved; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5149/23]

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will also begin by wishing the Tánaiste well in his new role as Minister for Defence. I also associate myself with the condolences expressed to the family, friends and comrades of the late Private Seán Rooney. My question is simple. What are the Tánaiste's plans to arrest the ongoing haemorrhaging of staff from the Defence Forces, which we are aware of? In particular, what is the current status of our active seagoing fleet?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The military authorities advise that the strength of the Permanent Defence Force at 31 December 2022 was 7,987. The strength in July 2022 was 8,194; 8,146 in August; 8,103 in September; 8,074 in October and 8,049 in November. We have previously acknowledged, and I do so now, that the current staffing difficulties in the Naval Service are very serious. I received a briefing yesterday from members of military management and met them on their proposed recruitment strategy for 2023. Recruitment was notably lower in 2022 than in previous years and this briefing outlined how the Defence Forces military management proposes to counter this trend.

With regard to the Naval Service, it has been decided that the LÉ Róisínshould be placed into operational reserve with effect from 31 January, as should the LÉ Niamhonce its mid-life refit is completed later this year. This is aimed at stabilising operational delivery while assisting in regeneration by prioritising the training and development of existing Naval Service personnel. The Naval Service has advised that this action will not affect its ability to fulfil its current maritime security and defence commitments, including commitments provided under the current service level agreement with the Sea-Fisheries Protection Agency.

In response to the specific challenges in the Naval Service, a comprehensive Naval Service regeneration plan is being progressed and monitored by a high-level civil and military team. The aim of this plan is to address issues, including human resource matters, facing the Naval Service. This is in addition to ongoing general service and direct entry recruitment, and a tender competition for a specialist recruitment body to target individuals with the skills and expertise that are required by the Naval Service. A number of retention initiatives have been implemented and others are currently under way. These include service commitment schemes in the Air Corps and Naval Service, and the seagoing naval personnel tax credit. Agreement has also been secured to allow for an extension in service limits for privates and corporals and, on an interim arrangement, for sergeants.

There has been significant progress on pay as a result of increases arising from the Public Service Pay Commission report, from recent pay agreements and the early implementation of some of the recommendations of Commission on the Defence Forces.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The reality is that whatever has happened to date is not working. We have been talking about the haemorrhaging of staff for a very long time and we are now at a critical level. The Tánaiste would have read the remarks of Lieutenant Colonel Conor King at the annual delegate conference of the Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, when he said that given the lack of action on crucial retention measures, the lack of implementation, the lack of respect and consideration afforded to commissioned men and women who are to be relied upon to drive the clearly identified changes required, we now know that we have an almost Sisyphean task to get back to a strength of 9,500. The task of getting to 11,500 is almost beyond reach. Is it the Tánaiste's objective to reach 11,500 members of the Permanent Defence Force and how is it going to happen? We are going backwards now, with two additional ships mothballed.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Since my appointment I have reviewed the situation. The first priority is to get back to a strength of 9,500. The situation is not good right now in terms of the Naval Service in particular. The numbers are simply too low. We need a radical look at the entire organisation of the Naval Service in the context of recruitment and retention. It is simply not tenable right now in terms of the issues. We have moved on the pay front and substantial progress has been made. The starting pay for a newly qualified three-star private recruited on completion of basic training for possibly 26 weeks and the Naval Service equivalent is currently €36,419. A newly commissioned officer, that is, a school-leaver who applied for cadet training, is now commissioned after 15 to 18 months' cadet training and starts on a salary of €40,316. If officers are already graduates when they join, they start on a salary of €45,000. We can still look at other areas but I feel that it is something to do with the organisation of working time within the Naval Service itself. We have to take modern-day realities into account. We need to stand back and do everything we possibly can to arrest this decline. I do not disagree with the Deputy's basic point.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We have been hearing that sort of answer for a very long time. It is not having any effect. We are losing the skilled personnel that it has taken years to train. We have not got a solution to that; in fact we are going backwards. How many Naval Service vessels are actually patrolling our waters right now? Before we get to a strength of 11,500, when does the Tánaiste expect the interim target of 9,500 to be achieved?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I just gave the figures earlier. Right now we are hovering at about 8,000. It will take some time, certainly, within the next two to three years, to get to the figure of 9,500, maybe sooner. Yesterday there was a significant briefing on the investment we are going to put into Gormanston as a centre of excellence for induction training. That should have happened before now. It is a significant investment in itself. The Naval Service currently has a fleet of six vessels. The LÉ Niamh is in the process of a mid-life refit which is expected to be completed in quarter 3 of this year.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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How many vessels are at sea or available for seagoing work?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have given the details on what is now going to happen with the LÉ Róisín and the LÉ Niamh. Two inshore patrol vessels have been purchased to replace the LÉ Orlaand the LÉ Ciara. Again, there are issues around trying to expand the catchment area in terms of the recruitment pool into the Naval Service. There are some thoughts on that which we discussed yesterday regarding recruiting more from different parts of the country where there would not have been a tradition of such recruitment heretofore.