Dáil debates

Thursday, 15 December 2022

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Child and Family Agency

5:59 pm

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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My parliamentary assistant, Mr. Luke Silke, was in contact with the Department of Justice regarding the flaws within the Garda vetting system. I understand, however, it is not investigating the disclosures made by Aontú because of that Department's interpretation of the Protected Disclosures (Amendment) Act.

In recent months, I was contacted by an individual who alleged that she and her siblings were severely abused while in foster care in this country in the 1980s and 1990s. Tusla has ascribed the pseudonym "Alice" to the individual and has produced an internal case review of her life, dated 2020, known as the Alice report. Alice has furnished me with a copy of that report. "Morning Ireland" has also broadcast a piece on Alice's life. It interviewed her sister, Miss H. A major discrepancy exists between the findings of Tusla's Alice report and a recent email exchange between Miss H and the Garda data protection unit. Tusla states in the Alice report that the biological son of Miss H's foster mother was accused by Miss H of child sexual abuse, that he confessed the child sexual abuse to the Garda, that a file was sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, and that the DPP decided not to prosecute.

In an email exchange with the Garda data protection unit this year, Ms H was informed that the Garda has located a PULSE entry relating to her report of abuse in 1999. However, the Garda noted that no suspected offender is named nor is there any detail lodged. In a separate email, it is stated that it does not appear the incident was forwarded to the DPP. This statement from the Garda is obviously completely at odds with the Tusla statement in the Alice report, which claimed the DPP had decided not to prosecute. In its moves to clarify this matter, the Garda has been inconsistent, has raised more questions than answers and has retraumatised Alice and Ms H. Again, the Department of Justice has been furnished with all of the documents I have quoted from. The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, met with Alice over the summer and I am very grateful to him for doing so.

The reason I am raising this matter with the Minister of State today is that my parliamentary assistant was very recently contacted by an individual who sent an image that appears to show the alleged child sex abuser, the person who allegedly abused Ms H, as having recently been appointed to a role within a sports club. The screenshot sent has been furnished to the Minister of State's Department. The individual who contacted us wanted to know how an alleged abuser could have possibly got through the Garda vetting system. The answer is simple. Despite Tusla recording that this alleged abuser actually confessed to the child sex abuse of Ms H and despite the existence of a PULSE reference number on that case, An Garda Síochána has openly admitted it has no record of any detail logged, of a confession or of the name of the alleged abuser. Therefore, a Garda vetting search of the alleged abuser's name would presumably return no results whatsoever. This is an extraordinarily concerning development that could call into question the entire Garda vetting system. It is not unique to this case. How can we possibly have faith in the vetting system if files and confession statements that should be in the PULSE system have simply gone missing?

6:09 pm

Photo of James BrowneJames Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy will be fully aware, I will not be discussing a specific case. However, I will answer the question that was posed, which sought to discuss with the Minister for Justice the technologies and methods used as part of the Garda vetting process.

On behalf of the Minister for Justice, Deputy Humphreys, I thank the Deputy for raising this issue in the House today. The Deputy will appreciate that the Garda Commissioner is responsible for the management and administration of Garda business. This is laid down under the Garda Síochána Act 2005 and includes the technologies and methods used as part of the Garda vetting process. Additionally, the national vetting bureau Act of 2012 makes it the responsibility of the chief bureau officer of the Garda National Vetting Bureau to establish and maintain the database of the bureau. The Minister for Justice has no role in these independent functions.

The Minister is advised by the Garda authorities that, in general, the vetting process follows a number of steps. In the first step, the vetting subject manually completes and forwards to a relevant organisation a vetting invitation form and provides proof of identity. In the second step, the relevant organisation confirms proof of identity and sends the vetting subject an email with a link attached inviting him or her to complete a vetting application form. The third step is that the vetting subject completes the vetting application form online and submits it to the relevant organisation. In the fourth step, the relevant organisation reviews the vetting application form and submits it to the Garda National Vetting Bureau. The fifth step is that the bureau processes the application and forwards a vetting disclosure to the relevant organisation while the sixth is that the relevant organisation accesses the vetting disclosure through the online portal.

The Deputy may wish to know that the bureau provides applicants with a tracking number for their application and that, concurrent with the vetting process, they can track the progress of their application online. The Minister is advised that standard turnaround times for vetting run at five to eight working days and there are currently no delays or backlogs. As the Deputy will appreciate, some applications will take significantly longer for a variety of operational reasons.

I can also inform the Deputy that a Garda vetting review group was established in April 2021 and meets regularly to discuss potential amendments to vetting legislation. This group includes members of the Garda National Vetting Bureau in An Garda Síochána, officials from my Department and from Tusla and other relevant stakeholders. The primary focus of the group is strengthening the vetting legislation in an effective manner. Issues to be considered by the group include any changes which may be possible in the area of re-vetting. The Minister hopes the group will be in a position to report on its work early in the new year. I can also confirm to the Deputy that technology will be addressed in the working group's report.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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This is an extraordinary answer. All of us in the Dáil are responsible to the citizens we serve in the State. The case I have raised is anonymous so the Minister of State actually can refer to it. Ministers refer to many specific cases regularly in this Chamber. The Minister of State is responsible for ensuring the Garda does its job properly. It is not the case that he can just sit on his hands and say it is somebody else's business. It is the responsibility of this Government to ensure citizens are protected.

Alice is a very brave woman, as is her sister, Ms H. They have been relentless in the pursuit of justice. They have been knocking on the doors of a great many agencies over the past two decades. They have had to do that because of responses similar to that the Minister of State has given here. Her name is well known to Tusla and in the local Garda station because of her persistent campaigning. At one point, she triggered a Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC, investigation into the way her local Garda station handled her abuse case. At the same time as this investigation was under way, she was applying for a house. During the GSOC investigation, the Garda station under investigation told the local authority that Alice had broken the law. One presumes this would have had the negative effect of reducing the chances of her housing application being successful. The Garda has since said this was an error and apologised to Alice for providing the local authority with a fabricated and false record. I believe the Minister of State will agree that, when agents of the State who are meant to protect individuals and vet people properly admit they do not have documents within PULSE records and when they tell a local authority a lie regarding an individual's track record which could reduce his or her opportunity to get a local authority house, it is our responsibility. I would like the Minister of State to answer the question I asked him in the first section.

Photo of James BrowneJames Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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Again, as the Deputy is very well aware, it is not possible for me to address the very specific case he has raised. I would also point out that the Deputy asked a very generic question asking the Minister for Justice to address issues around the technologies and methods used. If he wanted a more specific answer, he could have asked a more specific question or highlighted what he was going to raise to the Department before I came in here.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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We did. All of this information is in the Department's hands.

Photo of James BrowneJames Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy did not do so before I came in here.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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All of it has been in the Department's hands for weeks.

Photo of James BrowneJames Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy asked a generic question. Again, on behalf of the Minister for Justice, I thank the Deputy for raising this issue today. I again emphasise that the Garda Commissioner is responsible for the administration and management of the Garda vetting system. The Minister for Justice has no role in such matters and cannot direct An Garda Síochána in the operation of the vetting system. The primary purpose of the employment vetting carried out by the national vetting bureau is to seek to ensure the safety of children and vulnerable adults. This important work needs to be carried out thoroughly and correctly. As I have mentioned, the Garda vetting review group is working on issues relating to the strengthening of the vetting legislation and the Minister looks forward to the group's report, which is anticipated early in the new year.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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There is no more information there than a Google search would have provided.

Photo of James BrowneJames Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should ask a more specific question next time.

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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We have.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Perhaps it might be possible for the Deputy to talk to the Department and the Minister and work out a system to resolve the problem.