Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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77. To ask the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment the progress that has been made to date since the approval of the national climate action plan to achieve the targets in the plan; if he is satisfied that the full objectives of the plan will be achieved by 2030; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [62724/22]

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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What progress has been made to date since the approval of the national climate action plan to achieve the targets in it and is the Minister satisfied the targets laid out to be reached by 2030 will now be achieved?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I believe they can be but it is not certain. Earlier, I read out some of the analysis of what has happened in recent years. The increase last year in our transport, agriculture and power generation emissions makes it harder. Every year we see emissions continuing to increase makes the scale of the change required on the other side of the equation all the greater. I believe, however, that we can do this for a variety of reasons. First, this is going to be good for our country. Let us take agriculture as one example. To meet the reductions necessary in this area, which are much lower than in other sectors, the action to be taken will largely be about providing new income streams to farmers in agroforestry. I do not know what the Deputy's expectation is, but I think the Government's new programme for forestry will take off. I think there will be huge demand for something new and innovative in the areas of riparian and other agroforestry schemes, because they pay and are achievable and deliverable. This is an example where this approach is better. I am just taking agriculture as one sector now, and the switch to anaerobic digestion gives us energy security, provides a new income stream for farmers and it is a known technology. It is not impossible. This is being done all over Europe.

Why can we not do it here? I am absolutely convinced we can. Our diversification into the likes of tillage or other markets would give us a more stable and secure agricultural system, particularly for the north and west of the country. The country is divided agriculturally very much into the north west and the south east with different characteristics, different climates and different soils, with one dairying and more intensive and one less so. For the north and west, there is significant potential here to turn it into an income stream by going genuinely orange and green and marketing ourselves. However, to be able to market it, one must do it. The worst crime here would be to greenwash - to say we are green but not in practice.

It is deliverable. My sense is - I do not know what Deputy Ó Cuív's is - that most of the people who I meet around the country buy into it, want to play their part and do not want to leave their children with the planet destroyed. If we can show them the way, which is not a punitive or a shaming way but a better way, we can make the leap, but it is a leap.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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My sense of it is that we are not achieving the targets so far and, as the Minister said, that we are going backwards. On the real big wins, of the ones that have the real opportunity to change everything, the one outstanding one, of course, is renewable energy from the ocean, whether it is wind, wave or tidal. I wonder how quick are we progressing towards harnessing that enormous resource of energy which could not only energise this country but could provide Europe with a lot of energy. Could the Minister tell me, in terms of forced policy on planning and on the environment, how quickly we are progressing and what is his expectation in relation to wind energy? Will we achieve what we set out to achieve by 2030 in terms of renewable generation of major sources of power?

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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Before the Minister responds, I call Deputy Durkan on the same issue.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Minister on the need to meet targets and to ensure that the targets are met insofar as is possible. However, this is not simply about replacement of income for landowners and farmers, etc. It is also about food production. In a world where there is a scarcity of food where millions of people are dying of starvation, we may well find ourselves in the not-too-distant future facing a serious food shortage. It is not only about one issue of replacement of income. It is about a number of issues. We need to take as much action as can be taken on the alternatives, maximise them, and try to keep our food production and keep our independence. There are those who say that it cannot be done. It can be done with the help of science.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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In deference to Deputy Durkan, I might focus on Deputy Ó Cuív in the short few minutes I have because I spoke about agriculture in the first response.

It is not only offshore wind. We also have to develop further onshore wind. Many State companies, such as Coillte and Bord na Móna, have considerable potential to do that if our planning system can free up and deliver some of the projects that are stuck in planning. Solar and offshore wind will be a significant part.

The offshore wind is in three phases. We are now starting the first phase. As we speak, consents are starting to be issues, the auction process is starting and it is going to planning next year. We have to develop ports for the deployment of that. We have been appraised of that, in terms of connecting it together. There are about five megawatts of projects to go to their first auction. They will not all get through for a variety of different reasons but we expect a significant element to do so.

The second phase will probably be broken into two or three phases, with further development in the Irish Sea in the south east. This will be very much connecting into the grid, because that is the biggest constraint. The power grid is a real challenge. That is next year. We will start to set out, map and develop those and start the consenting. Quickly afterwards, in the lifetime of this Government, we will start in looking south and west and going towards both floating and conversion to hydrogen.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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As we are doing that, in the lifetime of this Government, we will set out the so-called "enduring regime", which is the really big project. In truth, the big power is to the west and north west, if one looks at where the resource is - where the really strong winds are - and where our largest sea area is. Critical to that is getting the environmental conditions right and, therefore, one designates marine area protections and special protection areas, SPAs. Bird life is the critical constraint. We have done a lot of work. Deputy Ó Cuív will be familiar with High Island in Connemara. Over the years, we have done an assessment of how the Manx shearwaters and other birds go out into the Atlantic, what their feeding patterns are, etc. We can use some of that historical data to make sure we match the areas where we put the turbines with good ecological restoration. That is one of the key things we need to do.

We will do all that in the remaining lifetime of this Government, so that we will begin to see the turbines coming and set in train a process that will not stop where that power powers our country and powers part of Europe too because we have a surplus. That is why this is an economic opportunity.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister will have another minute to respond.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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That is exactly my point. When the Minister goes for the big winds, he will wind up with an energy surplus.

The Minister has a target in the climate action plan of 1 million electric vehicles, EVs, by the end of the decade. At the rate of progress to date, is that likely to be achieved?

The second part of the question relates to hydrogen. The Minister, quite rightly, mentioned hydrogen because that could be a transportable type of energy and used for energising heavy goods vehicles, railway vehicles, etc. Will we achieve the 1 million EVs by the end of the decade? When will we start producing hydrogen at scale on this island?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The EV target is on track. On the sale of EVs, although I cannot remember the exact percentage, roughly one in five new cars is plug-in electric or plug-in hybrid. Everything I see with the car companies shows that they are all switching because of better cars, maintenance is lower, and running costs are lower. That target is the one that is most achievable. I cannot remember the exact figure. It is less than 1 million. That is not the key target. The emissions issue is key. If we only replaced all the cars we have currently with electric cars, we would also have a remaining problem, which is the congestion problem that comes with that.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Not where I live.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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We need to look at how we can improve the transport system so that it works, not only on a climate basis but also that we are not all stuck in traffic. It is not only about switching one car for the other. It is about reducing the demand for travel by the likes of remote working and other mechanisms, and not everyone having to drive to Dublin or to move to the big city. For example, our towns being revived would be a way that we could reduce the emissions and reduce the demand for travel.

In regard to hydrogen, there is already hydrogen being used in many industries, but at a small scale. The deployment of it for new and additional sources is starting across Europe. It is at early stages. It is usually on industrial sites, such as refineries and heavy industrial use where they have hydrogen in their fuel mix. That will be in the next two to three years.

The large-scale deployment of hydrogen, and our use of it as a way of storing some of the wind power we have, is towards the end of this decade and, more significantly, into the next decade. This Government has decided to set aside 2 GW of the new power offshore we have for such so-called "power-to-X" solutions as a way of saying we want to be in this new industrial revolution, we want to be good at it and we will do it as we are developing the offshore industry.