Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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A report published by HIQA this morning is a damning indictment of Government health policy. It states emergency departments are now under "unprecedented strain", echoing the concerns of the INMO that our hospitals face a nightmare winter. Last month was the worst November on record for hospital overcrowding. Twelve thousand six hundred and twenty-four patients were on trolleys. The HIQA report cites that one patient in University Hospital Limerick was left waiting nearly five days for a bed. That is not a unique case. Every Deputy in the Dáil has stories of patients who were left on trolleys for days on end. Chronic overcrowding creates dangerous situations, and HIQA highlights how patients must often wait far too long to be triaged for care.

It is the incompetence and inaction of the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, that are at the centre of this crisis. After two and a half years in office, he has failed to do what needs to be done. First, patients cannot get admitted because a quarter of the beds promised by the Government more than two years ago have not been delivered. Second, the Minister has not solved the delayed discharge problem. There are as many delayed discharges in the system as there are patients on trolleys. Patients cannot be discharged from hospital because of the lack of community recovery and step-down beds. Third, the Minister has failed to solve the crisis in home care. We now have more than 5,000 older people on home care waiting lists. This has been brewing for years, and it sees older people pushed into hospitals and nursing homes when they should be cared for in their own homes. There are no carers available to them because the Minister has failed to plan a sufficient workforce and address long-term pay and conditions issues that have harmed recruitment and retention. At the same time, people can hardly see a GP anymore. This exerts even more pressure on hospitals and emergency departments.

If progress is ever going to be made, the Government must get serious about delivering the right care in the right place and at the right time. This means urgently building bed capacity in our hospitals. It means rapidly increasing the number of community and step-down beds. We need a clear plan to address the lack of GPs and deficits in primary care. Crucially, the Government must invest in home care for our older people.

Taispeánann tuarascáil HIQA inniu gur tharla an róphlódú sna hospidéil go díreach de bharr teip an Aire, an Teachta Stephen Donnelly, sa phleanáil. Teip iomlán atá ann chun tuilleadh leapacha sa bhreis a chur ar fáil, agus tá an easpa infheistíochta i gcúram pobail agus baile ag cur brú ar an gcóras as a dtagann iarmhairtí tromchúiseacha. The Government's lack of planning and urgency in getting to grips with the bottlenecks in our hospitals must end.

I have some questions. The Minister for Health promised 51 additional consultants for our emergency departments. How many are now in place? For months, the Minister has promised an action plan to tackle hospital overcrowding. We have seen neither hide nor hair of it. Where is this plan? Can the Minister explain why one in four beds promised by the Government over two years ago has yet to materialise? When will we see these come on stream?

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising what is a serious issue for many who are affected by overcrowding in accident and emergency departments around the country. The problem does not affect every accident and emergency department but the circumstances are quite serious in some. The Minister for Health has, of course, read the HIQA report and will respond to it formally in due course. In broad terms, he and the rest of the Government accept it and what HIQA is stating in it, particularly its points on workforce planning, management, bed capacity and diagnostics. The individual cases the Deputy highlighted and that her colleagues highlighted last night in the Dáil are not acceptable to the Government and HSE, so we need to do better.

We must recognise that the 136,000 professionals working in our health service are delivering good outcomes every day for patients across a range of specialties, including in cancer care, cardiac services, stroke services and maternity units. That is a given but it is important to put it on the record.

The context is important. Last night, the Deputy's party had a motion before the House on this issue and the challenges presenting in our hospitals. There was no mention of Covid-19, which was a global pandemic, a once-in-a-century event. We are still very much living with the effects because the virus is still here. We acknowledge that the demand for services has grown significantly because of Covid and respiratory syncytial virus, RSV, in addition to flu and streptococcus A. The difficulties evident in our hospitals and some of our emergency departments are not unique to Ireland. The Deputy will be quite familiar with the circumstances in Northern Ireland, in particular, and also in England, Scotland and Wales. The European Centre for Disease Control warned earlier this week of the impact of Covid, RSV and flu on health services right across Europe. That said, of course we have to do everything we possibly can to address the situation.

When engaging with Sinn Féin's health spokesperson last night, the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, mentioned University Hospital Waterford and the fact that, come Saturday, it will have achieved 1,000 days without a patient on a trolley. The HSE needs to examine very carefully where best practice is occurring and how it can be replicated around the country. Some of it will come down to investment, bed capacity and staffing but also to effective management. When I consider this in the round, I note a healthcare budget whose core funding is now 24% higher than in 2020. The Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, has delivered more than 900 new acute hospital beds, 73 sub-acute beds and over 340 community beds. Critical care capacity, which we acknowledge was not where it needed to be, is now 25% higher than in 2020 and will continue to rise. We have had a 25% increase in the number of specialist palliative care beds across the system.

The action plan to which Deputy McDonald referred is the winter plan. It is fully funded-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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No, it is not.

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----with almost €170 million. The Minister for Health, his Department and the HSE are now working to implement that plan to recruit more staff. A further 608 people will be recruited as part of the winter plan. We have increased the workforce in health by more than 16,000 in the past two years. This is the largest-ever increase in the workforce in health because we recognise it as a priority. We have had to build up the permanent capacity, in respect of both beds and staff, to meet the demands of a growing population and the growing complexity of healthcare provision. We can and will do more.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Michael McGrath, should not reach for the 136,000 good staff in the health service to try to hide behind them, nor should he reach to Tory austerity in Britain to try to spare the blushes the Government rightly experiences because of its absolute failure to resource the health service.

The Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, has a penchant for launching and announcing plans but very often does not deliver on them. The winter plan was announced quite separately from the plan to tackle overcrowding in hospitals. I asked where the latter plan is. Clearly, it does not exist. That is the only conclusion I can draw.

I also asked the Minister about bed capacity. The Minister is currently the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. Riddle me this. He made an announcement in 2020 promising 1,200 new beds. Two years on and one quarter of those beds have not been delivered. This is a crisis of capacity, of staffing and of investment, but above all else it is a political crisis and an abject failure of leadership by the Government and by the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly.

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Far from hiding behind the staff, we are standing with the staff. We are investing in the Irish public health service. The Government has approved a new contract offer, which has been made to hospital consultants. It is well recognised we need far more consultants in our system. We need them to be present at weekends, and we need over time to remove private healthcare from our public hospital system. The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, and his team in the Department of Health and in the HSE have done an excellent job in delivering a package we believe has the potential to be a game changer in the provision of consultant-led care in the public hospital system. It is now a matter for the representative bodies to consider whether they are going to accept that. We very much hope they do.

Deputy McDonald referred to home care. Some 20.5 million hours of home care support was delivered in 2021. The constraint is not funding, the constraint is staffing.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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What of the 1,200 beds?

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is up about 17%, which is a record increase in the delivery of bed capacity in acute, sub-acute, community and critical care capacity.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Is that why people are on trolleys?

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We will continue to do more. We have increased the health budget by 24% over the past two years. We have recruited an extra 16,000 new healthcare professionals.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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They are pen pushers.

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are growing demands but the Minister and the HSE do have a plan which they are focused on and implementing. We need a degree of balance and fairness in the presentation of these issues.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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When will Fianna Fáil learn the lessons of the crash that its policies led to more than a decade ago? I am really struggling to understand what the Government is at. The big innovation from the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage when it comes to restoring public confidence in An Bord Pleanála is to revert to a discredited system of political appointments that was done away with almost 40 years ago. I do not think you could make this stuff up, that we are going back in time on this. I would not have thought Fianna Fáil needed reminding of why we need to remove any prospect of political interference from the planning system, or perhaps its members have forgotten about the tribunal reports.

If the Government's so-called reform of an Bord Pleanála goes ahead today, we will see the last remaining shred of its credibility and independence going up in flames. Most of the members of the board of An Bord Pleanála will be handpicked by the Minister, entirely at his discretion in a blatant and egregious political power grab. Meanwhile, as the Minister turns An Bord Pleanála into his political plaything, he is determined to remove the democratic oversight role the public plays in the planning process. Early in the new year the Minister will bring forward legislation that will make it as difficult and expensive as possible for members of the public to appeal planning decisions. The Government will stuff An Bord Pleanála with political appointments and then make it impossible for the legality of those decisions to be challenged in the courts.

There is no disguising how dangerous and deluded this is. We know from very recent history what happens when politicians say they will speed up the planning process. It grinds to a halt. Fine Gael, with the support of Fianna Fáil, introduced strategic housing development legislation in 2017, changing the entire purpose of An Bord Pleanála from a planning appeals body to a forum where first instance decisions were made. The only avenue of appeal then became the High Court. Then, Fine Gael Ministers had the audacity to complain that the number of judicial reviews went up. What did they think was going to happen?

Now, to solve a problem of their own creation, Fianna Fáil is ably assisting Fine Gael - this time in government - by taking a sledgehammer to go to An Bord Pleanála's last remaining vestiges of credibility. If the Green Party stands over this, it will be signing its own political death warrant. The awful thing is its members know this is wrong. At what point will Fianna Fáil and its Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage learn the lessons of history? While the Social Democrats are in favour of progressive reforms to our planning system, we need a planning process that is entirely independent of political interference, and which is open to scrutiny and legitimate challenge by the public. It is not too late to pull these deeply misguided and damaging plans that will destroy what remains of the credibility of An Bord Pleanála. I only have one question for the Minister. Will he do that?

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Murphy has touched on a number of important issues in the whole area of planning. It is the case the Government yesterday approved the draft of the new planning Bill. The proposed Bill will be published and will go into the normal legislative process. There will be pre-legislative scrutiny by the relevant Oireachtas committee. We look forward to seeing the outcome of that over the months ahead.

I will make a broader point. We have a choice to make in the country. Do we want to have a planning system that is Aarhus Convention compliant, is compliant with EU law, and facilitates the development we need to have in the State, which is the building of more homes for our people, investment in renewable energy technology throughout the country, and the delivery of public infrastructure, which the Deputy and others rightly call on the Government to deliver consistently? Do we want instead to have a planning system where it is simply too easy for planning decisions to get tied up in knots and to join a never-ending queue of judicial reviews, which may ultimately over a number of years be determined?

The root-and-branch review that has been led by the Attorney General and a whole team of national experts in this field is, in my view, a very balanced review. It has recommended a series of measures. The Deputy has focused on one particular strand of it. It is important to say that at the centre of this is putting plan-making at the heart of our planning system, bringing increased clarity and streamlining to the legislation, and improving the functioning of the planning system. For example, it involves the introduction of a range of statutory and mandatory timelines across the various consenting processes. An Bord Pleanála, which will be called an coimisiún pleanála, will undergo an organisational restructure. It will be subject to the statutory timelines, which will be introduced on a phased basis. The duration of local plans will also be extended from six years to ten years to have proper medium to long-term planning for how our country develops. We will have proper alignment of strategic planning at national, regional and local level over longer cycles.

Judicial reviews will continue to be taken. We are seeking to ensure timelines are included in respect of the various steps in the judicial review process, including for pleadings, hearings of cases, and delivery of judgments by the court. It also brings clarity as to who can bring a judicial review. In the future, a case can be taken by an individual or by an environmental non-governmental organisation. Groups such as residents' associations will still be to take a judicial review but will do so as a group of named individuals rather than in the name of a group or association. This is to ensure there is proper legal capacity for the taking of a judicial review before the courts in respect of planning decisions. We are also introducing very important cost protections as part of the reforms for those taking judicial reviews. We are underpinning the right to take a judicial review, providing clarity as to who can take it, providing cost protection for those who take it, and ensuring there is certainty in relation to timelines for outcomes to the planning process ultimately.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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The strategic housing development legislation actually slowed things down in that it resulted in people taking judicial reviews. Things can be done that are counterproductive, and I will point that one out.

Just this week, the Committee of Public Accounts received a reply from the Minister's Department of Public Expenditure and Reform that told us the Tribunal of Inquiry into Certain Planning Matters and Payments has not yet fully concluded but has come to a total of €143 million to date. We cannot go backwards in the context of political appointments. The independence of An Bord Pleanála absolutely must be sacrosanct. The idea the Minister can decide who to pick as members of An Bord Pleanála is political interference. It will not restore the credibility of An Bord Pleanála. It will do the reverse. When it comes to planning, I put it to the Minister that the public have a memory of Fianna Fáil and planning. What is happening today with this decision is retrograde, and particularly around political appointments. It is not acceptable.

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy referred to strategic housing developments, SHDs, and the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, has abolished the SHD process. Yesterday I brought forward a report on ethics in public office, which will lead to a new Bill that will be brought to the Oireachtas to consolidate the ethics in public office regime. This regime dates back to 1995 and was updated in 2001 by the Standards in Public Office Act. We have work to do to make sure we implement the recommendations that have been made by various tribunals of inquiry, the Group of States Against Corruption, GRECO, and the Standards In Public Office Commission, SIPO, in its annual reports. It will be a matter for this Government and the Oireachtas to work on that. The Bill we approved yesterday will undergo full pre-legislative scrutiny. It is important to give that assurance, and I know the joint committee will do its work competently and professionally.

On the issue of appointments to An Bord Pleanála, it is important that, in the short term, while the Minister, Deputy O'Brien's programme of reform of An Bord Pleanála is implemented, the board can continue to function, that we have a board that can administer planning and make decisions. The Minister has to take this step to make sure the board can continue to function. As the Deputy well knows, he is also setting out a new process on the nomination of members of An Bord Pleanála, which will involve the input of various stakeholders. It will be a public and open competition and it will be transparent and accountable. In the short term he has to make sure that the board can function and deliver its statutory functions to us as a country.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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People Before Profit wants to respond to a demand that was made yesterday by some Deputies for a reasonable and respectful debate on refugees. It is not the first time we heard that matter raised by those Deputies but we want to respond to it in the way that will give clarity on some of the misinformation that is coming forward. We also want to say that if the Deputies think they are being silenced for wanting real and respectful debate, then they need to check their facts and move sharply away from the hateful and dangerous lies that are being bandied about by elements who have different interests in blaming refugees. Rather than punching down at those who may be perceived to be below us because they come here looking for refuge, help and support, they should kick up and look at what the Government has brought us to in homelessness, a health crisis, a lack of childcare and workers moving away from education because they cannot live in their towns and cities. It is the Government that is to blame and not the refugees.

The argument around refugees in social media and published online, featuring some Deputies, is hateful. It is bizarre to me that those who profess to hold Christian values most preciously in this Chamber are the ones who are sending out a season's greeting that says there is no room at the inn. Christian values should know they come from the flight of the family from Egypt knocking on doors and being pushed away. Christian values are hugely important at this time. Away from the respectful debate and the racist stereotypes of single men of military age coming to this country, we need to be careful not to repeat far right arguments in an attempt to deflect from the real social causes and economic problems we have, which are the responsibility of the Members opposite me.

When you strip away those who have come from Ukraine, most of the refugees are coming from Georgia, Algeria, Somalia and Zimbabwe. Most of those societies have been massively impacted by the war in Russia, particularly Georgia. One million men left Russia during the conscription for the Ukraine war and most of them ended up in Georgia. Georgia is in the eye of a massive geopolitical storm and is meant to be next in line for attack by Russia. Syria remains the scene of historic and massive human suffering. Afghanistan and Africa are wrecked by the interference of imperial powers, climate change and social collapse. A cursory look at the history of Algeria, or any of the states that are deemed to be safe states that refugees are coming from, will show how false and dangerous this narrative is. If you bother to look at what is happening across Africa, Afghanistan or Algeria, you will see how gay communities, women and anybody who is different is being attacked and forced out.

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. It is important we facilitate open debate. Members of this House and the public are entitled to raise concerns, undertake legitimate protest and hold this Government to account in every way they possibly can. That said, the Government has international obligations which we will fulfil. The response of the Irish people to the humanitarian crisis of the terrible war in Ukraine and those coming here seeking international protection has been second to none. We would expect nothing less from the Irish people. That is not to say it has been easy. It has not been easy and it will continue to present real challenges for the public service, the Government and communities throughout the country that we ask to take in groups of people whom they do not know. Inevitably that will be exploited by people who hold certain views. There is no question about that.

It is important to put it all in context. The number of people who have come to Ireland in recent months is beyond parallel. We have provided a safe haven to more than 67,000 people fleeing a brutal war, and that is the context for all of those people. I will come to the international protection process in a moment but these people are fleeing war. They are in fear of losing their lives and worried about their family members and communities. We have an obligation to protect them. We may not be able to provide accommodation and support of a standard we would like to in ideal circumstances, but we will make sure their basic needs are met. I commend the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, his officials and those in the international protection accommodation service, IPAS, on providing services and accommodation to people coming here from Ukraine. They have provided accommodation for almost 50,000 people who have arrived from Ukraine. In addition to that, from the beginning of this year to date, almost 14,000 people have arrived in Ireland seeking international protection. The average number of people seeking protection from 2017 to 2019 was about 3,500, so by the end of the year it will be clear that the number of people who have come here this year has increased fourfold relative to what might be called a normal year.

However, I am not sure we will see normal years again. That is the reality. The Deputy spoke about the geopolitical developments all over the world and they will not end any time soon. Be they war, famine or the impact of climate change, we have to develop a system and a capacity to respond to people who come here. We have a process and people who come here claiming international protection will go through that process. It is important that every case is dealt with on its individual merits and in line with our international obligations, and that is what we will do. Between people who have fled the war in Ukraine and people who have come to this country seeking international protection, the State is providing accommodation for almost 68,000 people, and this has presented challenges. The Government will work collectively to address those challenges in the best way we can. We had a good Cabinet committee meeting earlier this week where we heard, for example, of the plans to roll out a new community support fund to assist and invest in communities that have opened up their arms and, in many cases, opened up their hearts and homes to people coming to Ireland for safety, security and a better future.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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When I put this question I reckoned it would give the Government an opportunity to praise itself, but I want to make the following point to the Minister. The Government needs to think twice about the sort of praise it is heaping on itself. Before any refugee crisis happened here, we had a crisis in our health service, our education system, our childcare service and, in particular, with our housing. When other people who live here look around them and blame the refugees because they can and fail to look up and blame the Government, we have a problem. It is the Government that is to blame. A woman stood up at a public meeting in Ballyfermot and said to the people who had attacked refugees or were giving out about them that she had been on the housing list for 15 years and no refugee was to blame for that. She said that was the fault of the Government. There are 160,000 vacant homes in this country and the Government has made no move to refurbish, claim or open them. If people who are homeless or sick complain about refugees, it is a problem the Government has to answer to. The problem I have with what the Deputies argue is that they feed into a racist and ugly narrative that is about in our society. I am calling on communities in the run-up to Christmas to open their arms to these people and to make sure they are made to feel welcome. They should not blame refugees and should learn the facts about what is happening on the planet and about what this Government has done and continues to do to this society in the third-richest country on the planet.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy does not want a balanced debate at all.

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The initial contribution of the Deputy was not directed at the Government, as I heard it.

They were directed at others in this House and perhaps people outside it. I was entitled to set out from the Government's perspective what we are doing to deal with what is a very challenging situation. We must be fair, open and honest about that. I will always vindicate and stand behind the rights of others to raise questions and to have legitimate debate but it was important to put that in context and in the context of what the Government is doing. It certainly was not self-praise in any way.

However, Ireland is a good country. It is a place people want to come and live and work in and rear a family. That is borne out by all the evidence. Apart from the flow of Ukrainian refugees and people seeking international protection, all the evidence points to Ireland being regarded as an attractive country where people see a bright future and opportunity. Of course, that places more pressure on our health system, the housing crisis we face and the delivery of public services but this Government will continue to do its best to meet those obligations. I pay tribute to the 4,500 people who are now in receipt of the accommodation recognition payment in respect of almost 10,000 Ukrainians who have come here seeking refuge and support. I pay tribute to them and the Irish people.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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I wish to raise a matter from the Minister's constituency that has national significance. I refer to the crisis in the Naval Service, which I accept the Minister is fully briefed on because he is relatively local down there. I thank the Minister for the constructive engagement over the past two and a half years while he was in the role. Has there been major progress? I would say "No". Has the foundation for potential progress been laid? I would say "Yes". I acknowledge five measures. The fact that PDFORRA and RACO can affiliate with ICTU is a good thing. It would have been unthinkable three years ago and now it is just the norm. The improvement in pay for people with less than three years' military service is a good thing and is making a difference. The increased funding in the budget for 2023, improved accommodation at the base in Haulbowline and the purchase of two second-hand New Zealand ships, which are probably due in quarter one or two next year, are all good things. Are they progress? Probably not just yet but they are early indicators of potential progress.

The problem is that a ship is only as good as its crew and the crewing crisis in the Naval Service is a personnel crisis primarily. Unfortunately, 2022 has been a bad year again. There has been a net loss of 100 sailors this year. There should be 1,095 sailors but there are only 795 as of yesterday so it is down 300 crew and it is having a massive effect on morale and interfering with search and rescue operations, drug interdiction operations and national security operations so it is not just an industrial relations problem, it is a national security issue.

What is the solution? Staff retention is the key and the key to staff retention is implementing the findings of the Commission on the Defence Forces and the high-level action plan, particularly the pay components of that, including off-shore allowances. It is unacceptable that military sailors get paid a fraction of what other public servants get when they go to sea. Military sailors get approximately €60 gross per 24-hour period when they are at sea whereas the Sea-Fisheries Protection Authority, the Marine Institute in Galway and the Revenue Commissioners get multiples of that. That is the solution. If we are looking for the solution to the crisis in the Naval Service, it involves pegging the patrol duty allowance to other public servants when they go overseas.

How much will that cost? The estimated cost is about €6 million per year. If the Minister is looking to know how much it would cost to solve the Naval Service problem, it is €6 million per year. The beauty of it is that it does not need extra money. It can be met from existing resources if it is directed properly. There has been a lot of paperwork floating around over the past number of years. Where is the business case for increasing the patrol duty allowance? Is it in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and if so, when are we likely to get a favourable outcome?

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge Deputy Berry’s consistent advocacy on behalf of those who work in our Defence Forces. We need to recruit more personnel to the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps. I am particularly familiar with the challenges in the Naval Service because it is located in my community, I know many of the people who work there very well and I am aware of the challenges that are there. The Commission on the Future of the Defence Forces provides a road map for us to address the issues that have been highlighted. We have made significant decisions as a Government to increase capital investment in the Defence Forces and we are investing in more on-site accommodation around the country, which is particularly important.

We have approved and agreed the high-level action plan that sets out the response to the recommendations of the report of the Commission on the Future of the Defence Forces. Some of the recommendations have already been introduced while others require further analysis. Over the past couple of years, we have made some progress, which the Deputy acknowledged, including increases in the military service allowance, the security duty allowance and the patrol duty allowance while the tech pay review has been sanctioned by my Department. Other initiatives include the removal of marked time for private 3 star rank; sanction granted for full rate military service allowance for private 3 star rank; extension of the pilot service commitment scheme, which is of particular benefit to RACO members; and extension of the sea-going service commitment scheme. I have worked closely with the Minister for Defence, Deputy Coveney, on a number of these issues and very much welcome the affiliation of PDFORRA and RACO to ICTU. I know that has been a bone of contention for quite some time in terms of the conduct of pay talks so they are now very much in the room and at the heart of the negotiations that took place and members will benefit from all of the terms of Building Momentum.

The Deputy may be aware that the Department of Defence recently implemented two of the pay-related recommendations of the commission with direct relevance to the Naval Service, namely, that all personnel of private 3 star able seaman rank will be paid the full rate of military service allowance applicable to the rank while at the same time, the requirement for that cohort to mark time for the first three years at that rank will be removed so that is welcome.

The Deputy raised an issue around sea-going allowances. The high-level action plan also provided for the evaluation of replacing the existing sea-going allowances with less complex sea-going duty measures. A business case was prepared by civil and military staff and has been submitted to my Department. It has been considered by my officials, who have raised certain questions, as would be normal in respect of that business case and have sought further information so engagement is continuing with the Department of Defence. Once those queries have been answered, we will come to a prompt decision on those issues.

Cathal Berry (Kildare South, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for that useful response. It is good to know that the business case is with the Department. I again emphasise this is a unique group of workers. They are the only workers who have no access to the Labour Court and the WRC and they cannot go on strike so they do need political and ministerial intervention to ensure a level playing field. In the grand scheme of things €6 million is small money in respect of solving the crisis and that is the headline figure. I encourage the Minister to look favourably on that business case. This is an eminently solvable problem. There is a great opportunity in 2023 to put this right and ensure we get the recruitment so that the Naval Service can regenerate itself over time.

I wish the Minister the best of luck with his new role on Saturday and I look forward to further engagement over the next couple of years.

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Through the decisions we made in the past couple of years, and I provided a summary of some of the improvements introduced, we have demonstrated a willingness to examine this issue. There will always be risks in terms of wider public pay policy and there is a complex set of allowances across the public service but we have demonstrated a preparedness to take some risks by making changes to allowances. I recognise the point made by the Deputy about the special place of members of our Defence Forces, who are not in a position to take industrial action for very good reason. I am glad they are very much within the ICTU tent and have a voice. It is a voice they have given very effective expression to over the course of the recent pay talks. I assure the Deputy that positive engagement between my Department and the Department of Defence will continue. Once we have responses to the various queries that have been provided to them, a prompt decision will be made.