Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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56. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his attention has been drawn to the research report entitled, Low Paid Older Workers in Ireland: a Quantitative and Qualitative profile of Low Pay among Workers Aged over 50. (details supplied). [62094/22]

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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All my questions are reasonably straightforward and this one is no different. It refers to a report, Low Paid Older Workers in Ireland: a Quantitative and Qualitative profile of Low Pay among Workers Aged over 50, which makes for fairly stark reading. While they do not relate to all workers aged over 50 years, the report raises concerns. I would welcome the Minister's views on it.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I am aware of the report on low-paid older workers in Ireland. It is useful research and I thank Dr. Micheál Collins of UCD and Dr. Catherine Elliott O'Dare of TCD for their work. It was funded by the Low Pay Commission, an independent body under the aegis of my Department.

The report provides comprehensive information on both the commonalities and the differences between older and younger low-paid workers, and new insights on low-paid older workers. It is easy to think of low paid workers as younger workers who subsequently transition into better paid employment as they get older, but this study draws our attention to the fact that older workers comprise 20% of the total low-paid population. It is also worth noting that older workers are defined as those aged over 50 years and that, relative to all employees, older workers carry a lower risk of being low paid.

Given the anticipated growth in this demographic in the decades to come, it is important to understand its socioeconomic and labour market composition. The Government wants to improve the pay and conditions of all workers on low pay. As the Deputy will be aware, we recently agreed to move to a living wage of 60% of hourly median wages by 2026. This is the latest in a series of improvements in workers' rights over the past five years, including statutory sick pay, the protection of tips and service charges, parental leave benefit and multiple increases in the minimum wage.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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The research was, indeed, interesting. I join the Minister in acknowledging the work of Dr. Collins and Dr. Elliott O'Dare and their teams. The specific aspects I would like to raise with the Minister concern the number of participants who believe the pay they receive is inadequate and the manner in which the living wage will seek to address this. The adequacy of pension income is a serious factor influencing older workers' choice to take up or remain in low-paid employment. A point that is interesting and valuable about the report is exactly what the Tánaiste has said: we tend to think of low-paid workers as younger workers or people doing a little bit of work, such as a weekend job, for pocket money, but it is older people who probably have an entire working life behind them who face inadequate pay in their later years. Many of them have indicated that inadequate pension income was a driver in their decision to take up or remain in low-paid employment. People reach a certain age at which they should be entitled to leave work – I believe it is 65 but the Minister believes it is older – but the people I am referring to are being forced back into the labour market.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The objective is to eliminate low pay. There are many ways to define low pay but it is generally defined as the pay of those earning less than 66% of the median wage. With the introduction of the national living wage, the intention is to go to 60% initially and, provided the economy can manage it and businesses can afford it, to 66% thereafter. That would, at least on a statistical basis, eliminate low pay. That is what we aim to achieve. We will have auto-enrolment starting in 2024, which means people will have better pensions, although it will take a while for that to become a reality. Some of the reforms we are likely to see over the next year or two concern collective bargaining legislation, making the joint labour committees operate properly. This is because many on low pay tend to work in retail and hospitality, which are among the sectors where the joint labour committees are not functioning. There is an opportunity to make them work right and better.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I appreciate, as the Minister does, that older people work for a variety of reasons, but that does not mean they should not be fairly paid for the work they do. The Tánaiste announced the living wage will be benchmarked at 60% rather than 66%. I think it should be 66%. We should have a realistic and credible plan to move in that direction because that is the only way those affected will be taken out of poverty. I am glad the Tánaiste accepts low pay is not just, or mainly, a feature of the lives of younger workers. There are those who do not anticipate higher earnings later in their career. We need to move much quicker towards a living wage in consultation with businesses. It is pretty handy to say it will happen but not in the lifetime of this Government. The Minister really should be making a greater effort to move in this direction quicker.

When will we see legislation to abolish mandatory retirement clauses?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The plan initially is to go to 60% by 2026 and then to 66% but that can be speeded up or slowed down depending on economic circumstances. Part of the research behind this, done by Maynooth University, indicated there is a point at which, if the minimum wage is increased too much too quickly, there can be negative effects. People could be laid off, businesses could close and people's hours could be cut back. We all want to avoid these effects, and that is why the plan is not being implemented in one fell swoop.

I acknowledge that Germany has increased its minimum wage by a very large amount very quickly. It will be interesting to see how that pans out. If it pans out well, that is potentially instructive for us. If it does not, it will also be instructive for us, but we will need to examine it.

On the question on mandatory retirement clauses, we do not have a date for legislation but are examining the matter.