Dáil debates

Tuesday, 13 December 2022

Ceisteanna ar Pholasaí nó ar Reachtaíocht - Questions on Policy or Legislation

 

3:30 pm

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Believe it or not, it is now seven months since the Northern Ireland Assembly election in the North and the people are still without a Government as the DUP maintains its boycott of the political institutions. It is my understanding the Tories' very reckless Northern Ireland protocol Bill has been put on ice until the new year.

In her address to the Oireachtas recently, the European Commission President, Ms Ursula von der Leyen, made it clear she is hopeful progress can be made on the protocol. I share that hope. Space has now been created for negotiations. The question is whether this space is being used to get a deal to restore the institutions. Mr. Rishi Sunak became British Prime Minister at the end of October. He has yet to engage properly with parties in the North. Has the Taoiseach been in touch with Mr. Sunak?

What steps is the Irish Government taking to use the space now created to achieve progress, a result, the retention of the protocol and, crucially, government in the North?

3:35 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Generally speaking, one of the big regrets of the whole Brexit saga has been the degree to which proper thinking of the impact on Northern Ireland was never really carried out. We are living with the situation ever since Brexit and it has had a negative impact on the overall sets of relationships in respect of Northern Ireland. The British Prime Minister when I last met him, as well as everything we have heard from his office and from the secretary of state for foreign affairs, indicated a view to getting this resolved by negotiation. President von der Leyen was hopeful last week, as the Deputy said. We hope the European Union, with the United Kingdom government, utilises this opportunity to resolve the outstanding issues in relation to the protocol. Parallel to that, the DUP should go back into the Assembly and facilitate the restoration of the Executive and the Assembly.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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We heard today the Cabinet will not approve the updated climate action plan before the Dáil rises for Christmas. I understand the plan is to go to next week’s Cabinet meeting just before Christmas. That means we in opposition will not have the opportunity to scrutinise the plan in a Dáil debate. It means yet another delay in publishing much-needed plans to tackle the climate crisis. The latest update to the current plan shows 23% of targets due for completion by the end of September were missed.

When will we have the opportunity to debate it? Will it be as early as possible in the new year? How can we have confidence the Government will meet climate targets if everything is subject to such delay? We are seeing delays in the publication of the climate action plan, just as we saw delays in the carbon budgets and sectoral emissions ceilings.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. It will go to Cabinet next week. It is an enormously detailed plan. The challenges facing us in respect of achieving our emissions targets are extraordinary. A wide range of measures must be taken by every sector in society to deal with climate change. There will be ample time in this House early in the new term to debate the content of the plan. More than just debate, we need a collective resolve to implement the plan because it is extremely challenging.

Photo of Holly CairnsHolly Cairns (Cork South West, Social Democrats)
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Currently, a person who is abusing a partner can refuse to relinquish their rights under a joint tenancy in social housing. If a person has a barring order against a former partner for domestic violence, the partner's name remains on the tenancy and cannot be unwillingly removed. For example, if a person needs to transfer housing, this has to be agreed to as a joint tenant. The law is inadvertently facilitating that kind of abuse. Domestic violence is a very complicated issue and there are few easy solutions but in this case an amendment to the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2014 would make a significant difference to people, mainly women and children, in vulnerable situations. In his last few days in the role, I ask the Taoiseach to begin the process of making the necessary changes to the legislation to support victims and survivors of domestic violence.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising an important issue and making a fair point. I will follow up with the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage in respect of the changes she seeks.

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Householders are burning through their €200 energy credits at a rate of knots in this cold snap. I spoke to a woman on the north side of Cork city last night living in a council house with a poor building energy rating, BER. She is spending €10 per day on electricity, €10 per day on gas and €7 per day on coal and blocks. She is a pay as you go customer and her next €200 credit will not cover her until January. She will be all right as there are two wage packets coming into that house, but what happens in the house where that is not the case? Will people be disconnected in Christmas week or the week running up to New Year’s Day?

Today, as the Taoiseach reminded me, the Government signed off on a €10 million energy poverty fund. Does the Taoiseach seriously expect people to be beating a path to the door of MABS, Alone or the Department of Social Welfare in the days running up to Christmas? Why will he not bite the bullet on this issue and extend the gas and electricity moratorium not just to bill pay customers but to all customers, including those on pay as you go?

3:45 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have bitten the bullet at this stage in terms of the measures that have been brought to the Cabinet today by the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, which specifically targeted those on pay as you go. It is a good measure that is designed to target a group that is not captured by the other significant range of payments that have been made through social protection and other measures. People will not be cut off during Christmas week.

Photo of Verona MurphyVerona Murphy (Wexford, Independent)
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Today I will take the opportunity to seek a commitment to retain the 9% tourism VAT rate, which is vital to my constituency of Wexford, the coastal sunny south east. Tourism businesses, hotels and restaurants, are collectively our largest employer and prior to the pandemic that industry supported over 270,000 livelihoods nationwide. That included 10,000 jobs throughout County Wexford, generating €227 million in tourism revenues annually for our local economy. In light of the turbulent times ahead, it is therefore worrying that the Government plans to increase the tourism VAT rate to 13.5% at the end of February. This will turn tourism business models on their head at a time when there are ever-increasing operational costs. On behalf of the hotel, restaurant and cafe owners and their staff throughout County Wexford, I urge that all parties to the incoming Government retain the 9% VAT rate.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. To be fair, the Government has been very supportive of the hospitality and tourism sector over the past two and a half years making unprecedented interventions during Covid-19. There was the reduction in the VAT rate to 9%, which has also been advantageous to the industry. The Government will give all of these issues due consideration across all of the parties the Government has in 2023.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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The Taoiseach is aware of who Cara Darmody is. Cara is here in today in the Gallery with her dad, Mark. She is directly in front of the Taoiseach so he might give her a wave. She is the most high-profile autism advocate in Ireland today. She recently sat the junior cycle maths exam at only 11 years of age to raise awareness for the lack of therapies and assessments for autistic children. She received an incredible result of 97%, which was delivered live on the "Late Late Show". She has received the award for Munster Young Carer of the Year, she has received a Tipperary person award and she presented testimony at an Oireachtas committee only last week. She will now sit her leaving certificate at the age of 12 in an effort to raise awareness of the crisis for the 1,800 children who are waiting for assessments and supports. While her family could get an assessment for her brother, Neil, it cost approximately €1,730. Why is that so? Why can the HSE not deal with these people? She has to sit and watch Neil - and I was in the house last night - who has the mental age perhaps of a six-month-old. At the age of 12, she sees self-harming and him injuring himself and she has to endure that.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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She is a very special national advocate. They raised so much money and not a penny of it has gone towards themselves, but it is so that other people can get services. Surely this must be corrected. On the Taoiseach’s last day in office, I hope that he will give a reasonable response that the Government will do something for these people who so badly needs to be recognised and supported.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. We met in the office some months ago where we discussed these issues. It is not acceptable and I have said this repeatedly. I have convened meetings with all the relevant Ministers in the areas of education and health. There is an issue with the roll-out of the progressing disability services programme. That had an impact, in my view, on the availability of therapists in special schools and therapists more generally, which is patchy across the country. There is not a sufficient number of therapists in place to provide for children on the health side of things. While the education side has responded well, the health side has not. The HSE is saying that the recruitment of therapists is its biggest problem and challenge for assessments. We will go back to get this issue sorted.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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I wish to raise the issue of autistic children in mainstream schools who are excluded from the special care dental programme that autistic children in special schools and in special class are included in. I tabled a parliamentary question on this matter after I was contacted by the Dublin 12 Campaign 4 Autism Inclusion in relation to a health centre on Old County Road, Crumlin. The reply states that the dental service is not resourced to provide comprehensive dental care to all children, including those with special needs. The special care programme prioritises children in special schools and in special classes in mainstream schools, while children with special needs in mainstream classes are not targeted in special care programme. Parents whose autistic children are in the mainstream are already burdened, as the Taoiseach has mentioned, by the lack of services and huge financial burdens of paying for speech and language therapists, and physiotherapists etc., just like parents of children who are in special schools and classes.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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Can I just ask the question? Why are autistic children in the mainstream being excluded from the special care dental programme? Why are dental services not resourced to provide that care?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They should not be excluded.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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They should not.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a wider issue with dental services more generally. The fault is not all on the side of the State. We have to look radically at this to make a broader provision for people, and particularly children with special needs. They should be prioritised in any service. There has been a long-standing, ongoing issue which includes industrial relations issues, pay issues and so forth. We have a highly privatised dental service more generally. It seems to me that the capacity within the public service to deliver services on the public dental front is in decline-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Taoiseach.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----notwithstanding the fact that more money has been allocated. There needs to be very serious engagement on that issue.

Photo of Joan CollinsJoan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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Will that be addressed?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of Christopher O'SullivanChristopher O'Sullivan (Cork South West, Fianna Fail)
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Since the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, is present, I would like to ask question about the new agri-climate rural environment scheme, ACRES. For too long, we have penalised and docked payments for farmers for having bits of habitat on their land. For the first time ever, we have a proper agri-environmental scheme in ACRES that will actually reward farmers for working with biodiversity, with payments of over €10,000 in co-operation areas. Outside the co-operation areas there will be payments of up to €7,000 per farmer per year. At the moment, it is expected that only approximately 30,000 applicants will admitted into the scheme. However, some 46,000 farmers have applied to get into this scheme, which proves that farmers want to work with biodiversity and want to farm in an environmentally-friendly manner. I ask that the capacity of ACRES be increased and that we allow 46,000 farmers to participate in the scheme.

Photo of Charlie McConalogueCharlie McConalogue (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy Christopher O’Sullivan for raising this issue, for which he has been a great advocate. It has also been a key priority for the Government, as well as for the three parties in government. The uptake in appetite among farm families for the scheme has proven very strong. We have had 46,000 applicants, when the expectation was that we would have approximately 30,000 in the first tranche. I would love to bring all 46,000 in. We want to be able to enable all farm families to participate in this and to back them both in their farm incomes and by working to contribute to the environment.

There are number of issues that need to be worked through to see if that is possible. The first is the budget and the second is the process and the capacity of the system as to whether it will be able to manage that, to ensure it gets up and running smoothly, that it works well and that people get paid on time. I am looking at all those issues. I do not know yet whether it will be possible. If it is possible, I would like to do it. It is great to see such a strong response from the farming community. As we always have done, we will continue to back farm families both financially and in making a contribution to emissions reduction and to ecosystem services.

Photo of Alan DillonAlan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise the shambolic issues surrounding the suspension of catering services for those who use rail transport for intercity commutes. This has been ongoing for the past 11 months and it needs to be resolved. Rail passengers, including students and the elderly, who travel for up to three or four hours are still unable to access catering services whether that is to get a bottle of water, a mineral or a cup of tea on Iarnród Éireann’s intercity network across the country. Commuters cannot for the life of them understand how these restrictions are currently in place with no sign of catering services to be put in place any time soon. I think of routes such as Cork to Dublin, Westport to Dublin, and from Kerry, Cork and Limerick. Station-based shops are only available in bigger rail stations. I am calling on the Taoiseach to take up this serious matter with Irish Rail. We are now past the point of excuses from Irish Rail about short-staffing and cost issues. I ask for this matter to be addressed with immediate effect.

3:55 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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My understanding is that the catering provider has pulled out and the organisation has not been in a position to find a replacement but it is essentially a matter for Iarnród Éireann to resolve. In the interim, I think people should have their porridge before they get on the train.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In the 21 years of the existence of the Standards in Public Office Commission, SIPO, only once has its members had a split decision, and that was in respect of the actions of the Tánaiste, Deputy Varadkar, in leaking a confidential document to his friend. The Comptroller and Auditor General and the Ombudsman, both members of SIPO, did not accept his implication that his actions, in his then role of Taoiseach, which he judged to be appropriate, cannot be questioned by SIPO. In a podcast interview this week, the Taoiseach clearly disagreed as well with the Fine Gael leader's defence and made clear that taoisigh are not and cannot be above SIPO investigations. Considering that, what action does he plan to take in regard to his Cabinet colleague?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That was a very summarised summary of what I said on the podcast. All members of the Government are held accountable to this House primarily, under our Constitution, and we should never lose sight of that.

In respect of SIPO, it has made a decision on this. Every member of SIPO is equal. The Deputy's point is a new departure. I have no issue with there being transparency around the decisions of SIPO, but if we are now saying that because two of its members went one way and three went another way, the three who voted in one way are in some way inferior to the two who voted in an opposite direction, that creates real problems-----

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Are taoisigh accountable to SIPO?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----in terms of how a board is constituted. Once a person is appointed or selected onto a board, that person is duty-bound to assess every decision independently and in accordance with the criteria and understandings.

Photo of Matt CarthyMatt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Are taoisigh accountable to SIPO?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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As I said, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform today brought to Cabinet comprehensive proposals following a review of the operations of SIPO, which will come before the House in due course.

Photo of Jennifer Carroll MacNeillJennifer Carroll MacNeill (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach has been the recipient of many good wishes today and I thank him for his support and that of his Government for domestic, sexual and gender-based violence initiatives over the past two and a half years. Unfortunately, the majority of murders in Ireland still have a domestic violence motivation. A total of 53% of sex crimes have a relationship aspect and most killings and sex crimes happen in a residential setting. Seven hundred and forty-four women were for sale for sex on International Women's Day this year in Ireland. On 19 January, the Taoiseach led tributes to Ashling Murphy following her death, and since then, with the assistance with the Ceann Comhairle, I read into the record of the House the names of the other 243 women who had died in those circumstances since 1997. Will the Taoiseach commit, irrespective of the changes at the weekend, to retaining his support for the work the Government needs to continue to do regarding domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, particularly on the education front and through the introduction of a new relationships and sexuality education programme to lead the broad cultural change we need to give effect to the changes needed in Ireland?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. I assure her this is a whole-of-government priority that is embedded within the programme for Government. The programme for Government is the glue that holds the Government together, and the Government collectively and the three parties in government have an obligation to follow through on all aspects of it. With regard to domestic-based violence, the agenda that has been set, with a new strategy published by the Minister, Deputy McEntee, seeks to deliver that, particularly in terms of getting an adequate number of refuge spaces in place in a comprehensive way.

As for the relationships and sexuality education, RSE, programme in our schools, progress is being made by the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, especially in respect of the junior cycle, for which the review is nearly concluded, involving the updating and modernisation of that curriculum. In parallel to that, exercises have also been way regarding the leaving certificate cycle in respect of RSE.

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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This year, 28 December marks the 50th anniversary of the despicable and heinous crime of the bombing of Belturbet, County Cavan, which caused the deaths of two young teenagers, Geraldine O'Reilly from Belturbet and Patrick Stanley from Clara, County Offaly, and injuries to many others. In September 2020, I put on the record of this House information that had come to me through the good investigative work of Dr. Edward Burke, then of the University of Nottingham, regarding the Belturbet bombing and other loyalist operations in County Cavan. Subsequently, the then Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, confirmed to me she had referred this information to An Garda Síochána for investigation.

I welcome the recent announcement by An Garda Síochána of further investigations being carried out into this despicable atrocity. I wish An Garda Síochána well with this extremely important investigation and hope there will be co-operation from the public North and South, and from all authorities North and South, that will help to identify the perpetrators of that heinous crime. I pay tribute, as I have done in this House on many occasions, to the O'Reilly and Stanley families, who have always campaigned for justice for their loved ones, seeking the truth. They have always campaigned with the utmost grace and dignity.

Will the Taoiseach give an assurance that every possible support will be provided by the Government to ensure this further investigation by An Garda Síochána is progressed as soon as possible and that we will at least get the truth in regard to that atrocity?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. He has been a persistent and constant advocate for the O'Reilly and Stanley families in respect of the horrible murders of Geraldine and Patrick. Every resource will be given to An Garda Síochána. I welcome the fact there is a further investigation and all authorities North and South should make available whatever documents or evidence they have in respect of it. No effort will be spared to bring those who are responsible for these terrible crimes to justice.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are out of time but I will take the five remaining Deputies with 30-second questions.

Photo of Pa DalyPa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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It has been more than 50 years since five citizens were tried for their involvement in an attempted arms importation, although they were acquitted. The arms crisis had a long-lasting impact, particularly on Captain James Kelly, whom the Taoiseach spoke to before he died and whose family members I have been speaking to. Prior reviews have failed to include key source documentation, especially the unedited statement of his superior officer, Colonel Hefferon, which verified his testimony. The Taoiseach and I know Captain Kelly was acting under orders. Before he departs the office of Taoiseach, will he recognise that Captain Kelly was acting under orders and that the State covered up its involvement in the arms importation?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On Thursday, Jacqueline, a mother of two teenage children and wife to Richard, a man who has worked all his life - both of them are in their late 50s - rang me in tears to tell me they are going to be in court in the first week of February to face eviction from the home where they have lived all their lives. This is despite claims by the Government that it has brought in an eviction ban.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The time is up, Deputy.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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They have both written to the Taoiseach and the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, please. The time is up.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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What is the Government going to do to protect people who have done absolutely nothing wrong from being evicted from their homes? Will it finally bring in an eviction ban that actually prevents people who have done nothing wrong from being thrown out of their homes like this family?

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If Members do not stick to the 30 seconds I am giving them, I will not call them in future.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Nobody else did.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I was just saying that nobody else stuck to the time.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not pretending here. If we allocate 30 seconds in order to facilitate Deputies and they ignore whoever is in the Chair, I will cease the practice. I call Deputy Whitmore.

Photo of Jennifer WhitmoreJennifer Whitmore (Wicklow, Social Democrats)
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The cold snap has recently resulted in significant difficulties for people in being able to get out and about. Local authorities grit the roads but there is no provision for them to grit paths and cycleways. Ironically, over recent days, I have seen parents driving their children to school because it is not safe for their children to walk to school. Considering that the stated policy of the Government is for active travel, is it time to direct councils to ensure high-priority paths and cycleways are gritted?

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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I previously raised the loss of income to farmers in the Burren and the Taoiseach said it was not good enough. They have since met the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Brendan Dunford, who established the Burren Life scheme, has resigned, saying he could not stand over it. If things continue as they are planned, farmers and the environment in the Burren will be poorer. The Taoiseach was correct when he said it is not good enough. What will be done to change that?

Photo of Peadar TóibínPeadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
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In the Taoiseach's term of office, there have been a number of internal investigations in his Department into leaking to the media. One related to the report on mother and baby homes. It was alleged by some that it might have been the Taoiseach himself who leaked that document.

It is nearly two years since the start of that investigation and there is still no result. Will there ever be a result in that? There is another investigation; we do not know exactly what it is about. Is it the investigation into the Tánaiste, Deputy Varadkar's leaking confidential of the confidential GP document? What is it about and when well we see the results of that investigation?

4:05 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Daly asked about the arms crisis and Captain Kelly. I knew Captain Kelly and I met him on a number of occasions. In the next while, it will not be possible to do as the Deputy suggests, but I will have the issues raised looked at and reviewed. I understand the family have communicated to a number of Deputies on that.

Deputy Boyd Barrett asked about Jacqueline. I do not know the background of the case, but I believe the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien, has met the Deputy in respect of the family, or to discuss the case. The eviction notice does-----

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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She also wrote to him.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I know but I have not seen the letter. The Minister has met him. The Deputy said it will come to court in February. The eviction ban is in place until the end of March. I do not know the circumstances as to why it is in court, why the eviction has been sought or what background to it is. I know that the Minister will keep briefed on it.

Deputy Whitmore asked about gritting. I am assured by the Minister that footpaths generally can be gritted. The local authorities have been given instructions on active travel. We can look at that with the local authorities. It is an important point in terms of the safety of pedestrians and cyclists.

In response to Deputy McNamara, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Marine has met with the groups in the Burren. I met them in passing as well. There are issues with the expansion of the scheme and the levels of funding, but he is currently reflecting on this. I take the Deputy's point that if we can do it within the existing framework and facilitate those farmers who were pioneers and leaders, then we should do that.

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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Fianna Fáil councillors on the ground are blaming the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a conversation. I ask the Taoiseach to respond to the next question please.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is a handy fallback position-----

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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It would be a handy fallback.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----but it is very unfair on the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, who has been a strong advocate for biodiversity generally.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can the Taoiseach come back to the next question, please?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In response to Deputy Tóibín, there has been no outcome to that yet. I hope we will see that in due course.