Dáil debates

Thursday, 1 December 2022

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Third Level Education

10:34 am

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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89. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if he will engage with the PhD researcher unions (details supplied) to ensure that all PhD research students receive a living wage income or above via their stipend; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [60122/22]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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There are approximately 8,000 PhD researchers in the country. They do a vast amount of the teaching in our institutions of higher education. The great majority of them get stipends that mean they are in actuality earning less than the minimum wage. This is true even for those with the best stipends. That compares with the Nordic countries, where they get up to €50,000 as a starting point. Will the Minister agree, as part of the review, to meet the PhDs Collective Action Union and the Postgraduate Workers Alliance to ensure this situation is remedied urgently?

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. We have obviously introduced some measures in the budget as an immediate and tangible relief against some of the challenges of the rising cost of living. This included a once-off payment in 2022 of €500 for PhD students who receive an Irish Research Council, IRC, or Science Foundation Ireland, SFI, award and a €500 increase to the stipend baseline in 2023 for PhD students who receive an IRC or SFI award. In certain circumstances, PhD students may also qualify for support from the State's student grant support scheme, Student Universal Support Ireland, SUSI.

I agree that we need to do a lot better and that we need to do an awful lot more to support PhD students, and to support Ireland, because this is a matter of both our social and economic well-being into the future. For that reason, and having heard very clearly from PhD researchers, I have commissioned a national review of all State supports for PhD researchers. In this regard, I was pleased to recently appoint Dr. Andrea Johnson and David Cagney as external co-chairs for the review. The scope of the review will cover a range of issues, such as current PhD researcher supports, including financial supports; the adequacy, consistency and equity of current arrangements across research funders and higher education institutions, including equity and welfare considerations; the status of PhD researchers, given the debate about whether they should be students or employees, including a review of international comparators and models; graduate outcomes for PhD graduates, including the benefits to the researcher; and visa requirements and duration for non-EU students and their spouses, which comes up quite a bit. The review, informed by a robust evidence base, will be completed in early 2023. It will look at issues of adequacy, taking account of costs and other issues, such as the exemption of the PhD stipend from income tax. A list of the stakeholders that will be consulted as part of the review has not yet been agreed but it will be open to everybody, including the public, to make submissions. In light of the Deputy's question, I will ensure the groups he referenced will be engaged with as part of the review. I will convey that to the co-chairs.

10:44 am

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I appreciate that. I think they would appreciate meeting the Minister. While the opportunity for them to make submissions is important, the end game is the critical thing here. The vast majority of people doing PhD research in this country are living in poverty. That seriously impacts on their ability to do their research or even continue as PhD researchers. We give more than €700 million in tax breaks, mostly to private companies, for research and development and yet in our universities and higher education institutions, our researchers are living in poverty, in most cases earning less than the minimum wage. There is huge discrimination against non-EU PhD students, with many of them doing unpaid teaching and not being treated as workers when they clearly are. Without them, many of our higher education institutions simply would not function and yet they are either not paid or are paid below the minimum wage. They need to be treated as workers, as they are elsewhere. There is no question about it. They need to be treated as employees with collective bargaining rights, sick pay and all the other things because that is what they are doing. They are working in our universities and teaching our undergraduates. We should recognise how important they are, given the skills shortages we have and the need for us to be at the cutting edge of research and development, rather than forcing most of them to live in poverty.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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This is a root-and-branch review. It is not simply looking at what the level of the stipend should be; it is looking at all the issues, including how a PhD researcher is classified and whether they are students or employees. I have had engagement with postgraduates. There are some countries people reference as good examples of how PhD researchers are looked after where they are employees and there are other countries people reference where they are not. Looking at international comparisons is important, as is looking at what is best practice and wanting Ireland to be best in class. I share that desire. Next year, for the very first time, we will bring a stand-alone national research Bill through the Oireachtas. That will obviously go through pre-legislative scrutiny and the like. There will be an opportunity in legislation to tease through the research ecosystem and how everyone interacts with it. The review is the best way for people to make their views known. It is not an in-house review; it is an external review. The terms of reference are comprehensive and the first task of the reviewers is to engage directly with PhD researchers.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is welcome that we want to be best in class but let us be clear what the starting point is: we are worst in class.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I do not think that is right.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The average PhD pay in Europe is €32,000. In the Nordic countries, it starts at €50,000 and progresses to €55,000 on a fixed-term, four-year contract. In the Netherlands, researchers get about 10% more. Indeed, a lot of our people who are doing postgraduate and research work are going to the Netherlands because everything, from housing to fees to the cost of living, is so much better in places like the Netherlands. That is bad news, not just for our PhD researchers but for the entire country. It is urgent that we listen to them and that we get up to a level where they are paid for the work they do and are paid sufficiently well that they are not living in poverty or having to do other jobs impacting on their research. They should be properly remunerated for the work they do so they are not living in poverty. We have a hell of a long way to go. They are also affected by the all the other issues we are facing, like housing and the cost of living. Many of them have families and the majority of our PhD researchers are living below the minimum wage. It is an outrageous situation, quite frankly.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We can certainly agree that retaining and recruiting the best talent into our country is key. It is key to our future economic and social well-being. That is why in Impact 2030, Ireland's national research and innovation strategy, we quite rightly place a real focus on the researchers themselves. This review stems from that and from listening directly to researchers and postgraduate students. As recently as yesterday, I met with PhD researchers and postgraduate students with disabilities, who are working across our university sector, and heard directly from them. We are engaging but we need to get to a point where we have a very clear set of recommendations. I accept the issue around the stipend. Consistency of approach to the stipend is important, perhaps with a national minimum stipend level. We also need to look at other issues because I hear directly from them about other issues, including people who come into the country and find their spouse cannot work. There is a variety of issues here. We have tried to capture a broad gambit of issues in the terms of reference. This review will report back to my Department early next year.