David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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73. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the reason that her Department has an alert notice on its website highlighting the danger of scam phone calls and scam text messages; the extent and impact of such calls; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [59210/22]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I came across an intriguing notice on the Department's website highlighting the danger of scam phone calls and text messages. I am interested in hearing from the Minister about the extent and impact of such calls. What should people be wary of? I give the Minister an opportunity to give us some more detail as to what is going on in this regard. For instance, have people already been defrauded in some way by others pretending to be from her Department?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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My Department is aware of reports that people have received scam calls purporting to be from departmental officials. Thankfully, there has been a significant decline in the reported instances, from more than 1,500 last year to fewer than 120 this year. These scam phone calls and text messages are seeking personal information, for example, a PPS number and bank account details. The focus of the Department's response has been on the provision of information to the public so that people are aware that these calls are fraudulent and that the Department would not contact a customer to ask for these personal details by phone or text.

The Department has been in contact with An Garda Síochána in relation to these scams. In 2021, when the scam calls first came to our attention, the Department alerted people via a number of channels, including a video message from me, which was published on social media; a press release; internal communications to the Department's staff; a multilingual notification on our website; and a public information campaign, which ran in May 2021.

The Department continues to remind people to be fraud-aware, as a preventative measure. I take this opportunity to urge customers of my Department, who have accounts with KBC or Ulster Bank to update their payment details through the secure change of payment service on mywelfare.ie. This service is available to customers with a verified MyGovID account. Customers can also provide their new bank account details in writing to the relevant scheme area in my Department.

My Department will never contact a customer by phone or text message and ask for bank details.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for her response and for the work she and her officials are doing in this area, which is very serious, especially given, as she told us, there were 1,500 such calls last year. I wonder how many of them caused damage to people and managed to defraud them, although she might not have that information to hand. I welcome the fact that, as she noted, the figure has fallen to 100 this year, which shows that progress has been made and that the work she and her officials are doing is bearing fruit.

Has anybody been prosecuted as a result of making these scam calls and sending these scam text messages? I urge the Minister to continue to inform people of the danger of these scams and to remind them they should not give out information. I again highlight the importance of Citizens Information being made available as much as possible, even on a personal basis in towns and villages, and I reiterate that the outreach centres are very important in that regard.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising the matter because it is very important. Unfortunately, we will all know stories of people who have received text messages that drew them into a link that turned out to be fake and a scam. I urge people not to give their bank details to anybody, and the same is true of social protection. People should not give out their PPS number; the Department will not call people looking for that sort of information.

The Department is very proactive in this space, and flashes and alerts warn people about what they should not do. This conversation will highlight the fact people need to be aware. Crime has changed, unfortunately. Years ago, someone might have had her handbag stolen and that was the way it was done, whereas now criminals can steal from people through their phone, so we need to be so careful.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I fully agree with the Minister that this is very important. I suggest she might ask, if it has not been done, that notices be placed in post offices, where people collect their pensions and other payments, outlining the risk. Sometimes people receive messages and they are not sure about whether they should respond. Most people are well-meaning and good-natured and want to be polite when they get a phone call or message, but we have to emphasise that not everybody at the other end of the phone always has their best interests in mind. Perhaps there could be another number they could call to verify the number if they are unsure about the source of a message they have received. These people can be very clever, manipulative and smart when they talk to people on the phone, and people as clever as the Minister have been caught out by some of this activity.

I will encourage and support her in all she is doing in this area. As she said, it is very important.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I would say to people that if they are in doubt, they should leave it out and not go near the message or call because these people are professionals and they want to take people's money. That is the bottom line. We will continue to raise awareness about the issue. On Black Friday, there was a lot of online activity and many more of these criminals may have been trying to tap into vulnerable people. I would be happy for post offices to put up notices. I am sure we have provided them as well and we are happy to do that to create that awareness.

The Deputy mentioned the Citizens Information office. I have met the CEO and the chairperson of Citizens Information, which is carrying out a review. I deeply value the contribution of the volunteers in Citizens Information and we will continue to work with them to help provide that service.