Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for again affording me the opportunity to raise this issue in the House. As he knows, I raised it several weeks ago, when he gave me permission to do so, as did the Leas-Cheann Comhairle subsequently. Since then, matters have got worse as opposed to better. Normally, as the Ceann Comhairle knows, if one raises a matter in this House, there is usually a hurried rush to make changes and to ensure nothing is happening that should not be happening. That is not the case in this situation.

The situation continues whereby mothers, in the course of their rightful entitlement to go before the family law courts, are being ridiculed, despised and treated with contempt, and are having their self-esteem and confidence removed from them to such an extent that they are now afraid to go back to the courts in case they lose. In fact, they know they will lose. They are losing all the time. The rule of law does not apply to them. Due process and natural justice is no longer available to them because in the confrontational system that now applies in the courts, there is a bargaining situation between custody and whatever else might be available or possible in a settlement.

We all know that people fall in and out of love. I am not making any complaint about that at all; it happens. It is an extraordinary situation, however, whereby a gentleman in the United States some years back coined the phrase, "parental alienation", on the basis that children should be examined to find out the cause of their dissatisfaction with one parent or the other. This is after a separation. There is a simple answer to it: there is a separation. It is not the same as before. Something needs to be done to help out and not make the situation worse, but that goes on.

There are situations where constituents of the Ceann Comhairle's and mine have been put in cells while going through the process and their future was discussed in their absence. That is an amazing situation in a democracy. There have been situations where children have been taken away in the middle of the night, placed in very doubtful custody circumstances and locations, and where cases of sexual violence, and attacks made on that basis, have been subsequently brought to the attention of the institutions concerned. This is an appalling situation. It is particularly appalling in the context of the veil of secrecy and the veil of thein camerarule that protects everybody involved and nobody can ask questions about it. As the Ceann Comhairle knows, he allowed Members to raise questions about this, thankfully. I identified some of the chief conspirators, as I call them, in this particular situation. It is not them exclusively; more than one institution is involved. The fact remains, however, that women who are mothers are being treated despicably in the first place and children are being treated with absolute contempt when, for example, gardaí were ordered to go into a school, remove the children from the classroom, and place them in the custody of the other party.

This is not one occurrence but several. It continues to be the case that a parent is not allowed to rebut the allegation made against her in court. I presume it is because she is a woman. The system is so overbearing insofar as women are concerned. We thought that, down through the years, we had produced legislation in this House to protect women and children. We did so but that protection is not happening. It has now been brought to public attention again.

I thank the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, for bringing in new rules for the conduct of cases. That is important but we need to deal with the particular issue that prevails at this time and the victims of it.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Before I call the Minister of State to respond, I will say that when it comes to parliamentary questions and Topical Issue matters, I am advised, as all my predecessors have been, on whether I should accept or reject particular questions. There have been a whole host of questions from the Deputy on this particular matter and, with very few exceptions, the advice I have got is to rule him out of order, which I have not done. The reason I have not is that while I fully accept the separation of powers, I also fully accept that Deputy Durkan is a long-serving, distinguished Member of this House who does not raise matters without good reason. He has consistently raised this matter and he is entitled to get a proper and adequate response. I do not know what the response should be. I do not know where right or wrong rests in this, but the very least he or any Member of the House is entitled to is a response.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I convey the apologies of my colleague, the Minster for Justice, Deputy McEntee, who cannot be here for this matter due to another commitment. I am happy to respond on her behalf.

On behalf of the Minister, I thank Deputy Durkan for raising this important matter and for giving me the opportunity to provide clarity on some issues. As the Deputy is aware, I am unable to comment on any individual case or category of cases. The Deputy may be interested to know that, yesterday, the Minister published the first national family justice strategy and secured Government approval for the family court Bill 2022, which will be published in the coming days. These are the mechanisms by which the Minister intends to reform how our family justice system operates to make it more efficient, more user-friendly and less adversarial, and to develop a system that puts the family at the centre of its work. Everybody will welcome that. This is a key commitment in the Minister's Justice Plan 2022. The family court Bill will provide many of the building blocks essential to the reform of the family justice system. The Bill will create new dedicated family courts as divisions within the existing court structures, with family court judges assigned on a full-time basis.

To support the legislative changes proposed in the family court Bill, the Minister established a family justice oversight group to develop the first national strategy for the reform of the family justice system. The oversight group was chaired by the Department of Justice and made up of representatives from the main statutory agencies across the family justice system. The work of the group was informed by a wide-ranging consultation process. As well as relevant stakeholders and members of the public, a bespoke consultation took place with children and young people who engage with the family justice system. The strategy has nine goals and more than 50 actions, with the aim of establishing a strong foundation for a future system that will be child and family centred, and more streamlined and user-friendly, which everybody will welcome. Among the actions in the strategy is the examination of the role of expert reports in the family law process and to make recommendations regarding their future application and function.

In addition to this progress, the Minister recently held a public consultation on the topic of parental alienation, which the Deputy referred to. This provided a valuable opportunity to stakeholders and citizens to express their views on this complex issue and inform her Department's thinking on whether any legislative or policy changes may be required. All views, opinions and experiences submitted as part of that consultation have been welcomed and the responses received are under review.

We can never ignore lived experience so I hope this answers some of the Deputy's questions.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State and the Department for attaching importance to this issue. That deals with the issue for the future, which I welcome. Unfortunately, it does not deal with the current situation, which continues unabated. The question of parental alienation was always scoffed at by contributors in family law. It is regarded as a flawed resolution to a particular problem, which creates a further problem at the expense of mothers.

We as creators of the law have put in place the necessary procedures whereby women and children are protected. We learn from past experience again and again over the years that we should have listened to the children. Remember that? We spoke about it in this House several times. What the children are saying is a warning to us in these cases but their warnings and those of their mothers are being dismissed. This cannot continue and it will not continue. Whatever must be done will be done in the shortest possible time to release from that burden the people who are suffering because mothers and children are part of the population of this country. They are in an area where they expect to be well treated and get due process and natural justice. They are not getting it. It is slowly stripping away from them any power and voice they thought they had and it is sad that we have to make this reference. I hope to see some dramatic changes in the next few days as to what might be done to deal with the system that cannot go on.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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On behalf of the Minister, I again thank Deputy Durkan for raising this really important matter. The Minister intends to reform how our family law system operates to make it more efficient and user-friendly and less adversarial and to develop a system that puts the family at the centre of its work. That is very welcome.

The Department also arranged for a separate strand of independent research on parental alienation to be carried out last year. The Minister is pleased to say that a draft report has been received by the Department and is being reviewed. It is expected that the research and the public consultation will create a deeper understanding of the issue and inform the Department's consideration of policy in law in this area. Work is ongoing to integrate these strands of work and the Minister expects a report outlining the outcome of the research and consultation process and any resulting recommendations. I take on board the Deputy's point. This is really welcome news and cannot happen soon enough but it is the immediate term about which the Deputy is concerned and I will certainly pass on his comments to the Minister.