Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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68. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he or officials from his Department have engaged with Fáilte Ireland, an organisation (details supplied) or the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media to discuss concerns relating to the volume of hotels being used to accommodate international protection applicants or persons arriving from Ukraine; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [57037/22]

Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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My position on the issue of housing those seeking international protection and those fleeing Ukraine has been absolutely consistent, namely, that in responding to an international crisis, we must not create a domestic one. Unfortunately, this is clearly what is happening with the accommodation of applicants in a vast number of hotels and bed and breakfast establishments throughout this State. I seek the Minister's views on this matter. I also wish to know the level of engagement he has had with the representative bodies from the tourism sector.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I am cognisant of the potential impact on the tourism industry arising from the number of contracts my Department has entered into to meet our responsibility to provide accommodation to beneficiaries of the temporary protection directive and international protection. Regular meetings take place between my officials and the relevant Department and Fáilte Ireland to share learnings and discuss ideas as we continue to respond to the challenge of procuring enough accommodation to meet demand. My Department is grateful for the support of those in this sector in responding to date to this unprecedented challenge. The tourism sector has been magnificent in the support it has offered. Communities across the country have welcomed those from Ukraine in their time of need.

My Department is very aware of the concerns shared by some communities regarding the absence of tourists in some areas, now and into the future, and the consequent impact on local spending. To respond to these and other issues, we continue to work alongside Fáilte Ireland and the Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media as part of the whole-of-government response to the crisis in order to ensure that key stakeholders have a place in terms of the senior officials group and are able to engage with us on accommodation solutions.

As the Deputy knows, the Government is committed to delivering accommodation solutions beyond serviced accommodation, including delivering the refurbished buildings strand, the forthcoming new vacant homes call and modular accommodation. We must recognise - and the Deputy referenced it - that all of this is happening in the context of a war in Europe. This is the biggest humanitarian challenge Europe has faced since the Second World War and the biggest humanitarian challenge our country has ever faced. Even though it might not get top billing on the news every night, 6,500 civilians, tens of thousands of soldiers and 400 children have been killed in Ukraine. That is why we are experiencing these difficulties. We should always bear that in mind in our discussion of these issues.

Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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Rather than potential issues happening, these are real issues that are already becoming a crisis. Some 76% of hotels are being used. Yesterday, there was an article in The Irish Timeson a report by the Irish Tourism Industry Confederation, ITIC, which states that the tourism industry is warning of a potential €1 billion cost if refugee numbers in hotels and bed and breakfasts continue to rise. It was also reported industry will call on Government to reduce the proportion of tourism accommodation being used to house refugees from Ukraine and elsewhere to between 12% and 15%. Has that call been made? If so, has it been communicated to the Department? The Minister stated that there has been engagement, so I would like to know if that call has been made. This is an absolute crisis. Real issues are there already - not potential ones. One of the most, if not the most, important economic sectors is being radically undermined by the wholesale takeover of hotels. As indicted in The Irish Times, the report notes:

... the Republic is 'an outlier' in Europe in the depth of its reliance on tourism beds for refugees, and warns the reduced capacity for tourists is damaging the industry [...] Currently, it says, almost 22 per cent of tourism accommodation is used by the State for refugees from Ukraine and elsewhere. Itic wants this cut to 12-15 per cent ...

Would the Minister be in favour of that? That would be a proportionate and fair response. There are limitations to everything, unfortunately.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Deputy referred to 76% of hotel beds being used, but only 22% or 23% of hotel beds are being used for Ukrainians at the moment.

Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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What report is that from?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Those are the figures we get from Tourism Ireland. It is 22% or 23%, not 76%.

Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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For all tourism facilities, including hotels, bed and breakfast establishments and guesthouses, the figure I have is 76%.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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That is not accurate.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Deputy should allow the Minister to answer.

Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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That is fine. I am sorry. I just wanted to tease that out.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The Deputy is right that it is good for us to be clear on these things. I accept that there is a challenge for the tourism industry here. I absolutely understand it. We are looking to diversify where we are accommodating displaced persons from Ukraine. That is why we are bringing modular accommodation, vacant homes and the refurbishment of homes into play. That will operate to support diversification and a move away from the reliance on hotel accommodation. Work in this regard is ongoing. It is important to remember that the reason this pressure is being put on the tourism sector and other sectors is because women and children are dying in Ukraine each day. All over Europe, there is pressure happening as a result of this war.

Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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On the figure I gave of 76% of all Ukrainian refugees being accommodated in tourism facilities, that figure was supplied by the by the Irish Tourism Industry Confederation, ITIC. On the overall point, does the Minister believe it is right when March comes around and when the hotel beds and accommodation will be needed that we will have a situation where we could have more people and more than likely will have more people homeless? The Minister is talking about helping people but he is not helping them if they are going to end up with nowhere come March. That is not helping people. It is all well and good and the Minister can give the political rhetoric and the message - I am all for helping by the way - but we are being overrun. The figure is expected to rise to 70,000 refugees by winter time. Where are they all going to go? We are all compassionate people here but we need to get real and there needs to be a sense of proportion and a reasonable response that does not create a crisis and there is a crisis in the making here.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy. It is indicative of the real fears which Ukrainians have that they will make this journey here irrespective of the uncertainty of the accommodation situation they will have when they arrive here. It is indicative of their fears for themselves and for their families that they do so because they are in a wartime situation. There are missiles falling on civilian targets all over Ukraine and that is why people come here, even if they end up in tented accommodation in Gormanston or sometimes sleeping on camp beds, and see that as a preferable choice. We have to bear that in mind.

On the figure mentioned by the Deputy, I had thought that she had said 75% of all hotel beds were being used. My apologies for that as I misinterpreted what she said. The figure on the total number of hotel beds is 22% to 23%.

Undoubtedly there is pressure here, as there is in other parts of society but there is pressure on every European country right now. President Vladimir Putin is using refugees as one of the weapons in his war to try to unsettle us and undermine support for Ukraine and we cannot allow him to win in that context.