Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister, Deputy Foley, for coming to the Chamber to take this Topical Issue matter. It should be noted that all four Deputies from Cork North-Central are in agreement on this. We have consulted parents, corresponded with students and discussed it among ourselves and the wider school community over recent weeks and months. To say communication has been poor is an understatement. It is misleading to say a consultation process, or an adequate one at least, has been undertaken. The decision to amalgamate St. Vincent's Secondary School and North Presentation Secondary School is being foisted upon people late in the day, denying students enrolment options elsewhere and evicting students of the four autism spectrum disorder, ASD, classes in the Lir hub in St. Vincent's Secondary School from a building where they are immersed in a whole-school experience, potentially moving them to a prefabricated building in a car park.

We are calling on the Minister to engage with the trustees and patrons of both schools to ensure students' right to achieve their full personal, social and academic potential is achieved by consensus. We call on her to use her office to get the trustees to review their decision and, at the very least, re-engage with the school community and pause the current plans for amalgamation.

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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My colleague, Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan, has set out the matter clearly. It appears there has been very poor communication with the parents of the pupils of St. Vincent's Secondary School, particularly the parents of children with additional needs. There is a very good educational structure in place in the school for 24 pupils with special needs. It takes a bit of time for children with such needs to settle into a school and now they are being asked to move on 1 September next year. This requires further consultation and the whole amalgamation process should be paused. I wrote to the Religious Sisters of Charity last Monday and got a response today advising that the trustees intend to engage with the school's board of management and the teachers by the end of this week. This is a welcome development.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I add my voice to the calls to pause this process. Major decisions should not be made without the consent of school communities, including parents, teachers and students. Not only is there no consent in this case, there is, in fact, strong and active opposition, as was seen with the march of more than 300 people from the school yard of St. Vincent's Secondary School to Cork city centre last Saturday.

To be clear, I am a supporter of mixed education. I believe that for school to be a proper preparation for life, it should be in a mixed setting. I am also opposed to church control of education and this is as clear an example as one could wish to find of how church control and democracy are in opposition to each other. It is clear to me that opposition to this proposal is only going to grow. The Minister must, at the very least, pause the process and think again.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Minister to reverse the decision to close St. Vincent's Secondary School, which is a publicly funded school for girls. The buck stops with her. This proposal is having a very negative and upsetting effect on many students. For the students in the wonderful Lir ASD unit, it is an extremely difficult time and they are being hugely affected. It is having a fierce effect on the pupils who will sit their leaving certificate examination next year and, in particular, the following year.

The announcement came out of the blue. Parents attended open evenings and enrolments and were never told anything about it. Not only is this process flawed, it is happening entirely behind closed doors and it is happening way too fast. The trustees, the Religious Sisters of Charity, have refused to listen to parents, teachers and especially students. The students love the school, feel supported and want to stay there. The Minister must step in and tell them this amalgamation is not going to happen.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this matter as it gives me the opportunity to outline for the House the position with regard to the amalgamation of St Vincent's Secondary School and North Presentation Secondary School in Cork. St. Vincent's Secondary School is a post-primary school for girls under the patronage of the Religious Sisters of Charity. It had 215 students in the 2021-2022 school year. North Presentation Secondary School is also a post-primary school for girls and is under the patronage of CEIST. It had an enrolment of 138 students in the 2021-2022 school year.

The Department has received correspondence from the patrons of both schools regarding their proposed amalgamation and a change of status of the new amalgamated school to co-educational. The decision-making authorities for any amalgamation or change of status are the patrons of the schools. Where a school is considering an amalgamation, it should consult with students, parents, staff and broader communities. It is the responsibility of the patrons to undertake this consultation and make the final decision on whether to amalgamate.

Information provided to the Department of Education by the patrons indicated that a thorough local consultation process was undertaken between March 2021 and February 2022 between the school community of Catholic post-primary schools in north Cork city. This was indicated to have involved formal meetings with boards of management, staff, students, parents and guardians as well as parents and guardians of students attending Catholic primary schools in the area. However I am conscious that concerns have recently been raised by some members of the school community and that these have been brought to the patrons' attention. The Department has been informed that there were ongoing discussions between the two school patrons who will in fact be meeting again with their respective schools on Thursday in regard to the matters raised.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Have I 30 seconds?

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I will give the Deputy a little leeway.

Pádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for her response. There are a couple of points to pick up on. Later in the Minister's response she said that it was indicated to have involved formal meetings with the board of management, staff, students, students, parents and guardians as well as parents and guardians of students attending Catholic primary schools in the area. To clarify, from what we are being told by parents there was one Zoom meeting that involved parents. I am not sure that process was followed as is outlined in the report on amalgamation of secondary schools which was commissioned in 2001. I have two questions. Did the process undertaken abide by best practice? More important, can the Minister give a commitment that the independent report compiled by Mr. Frank Smith will be published even if it is in a redacted form? Can the parents of the school community have sight of that report?

Colm Burke (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for her reply. When an amalgamation is going ahead it is about whether the Department makes sure that all the boxes are ticked especially in respect of consultation. I am concerned that there does not seem to be a process within the Department making sure that all the boxes are ticked particularly in regard to consultation. As I said at the start I received a letter from the Sisters of Charity this morning confirming that they are going to meet with the board of management and with the teachers this week. That should be extended to a representative group of parents because they are the people who have been left in the dark.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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The Minister should not underestimate the strength of feeling on the ground. Parents and teachers have the right to vote. Many students will have the right to vote in the next elections too. There is also the right to protest. Parents, teachers and students alike will use it if the necessary steps are not now taken. The ball is in the Minister's and the Government's court. The people will be watching carefully for what is done next.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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Did the Minister sign off on this? This process was flawed. She is the Minister for Education. The Department of Education gave her this to sign off and I believe that was completely wrong. At the end of the day she has a responsibility as Minister to ensure that this was done properly. It was not done properly. I spoke to the parents, teachers and particularly the students. Have the patrons excluded all of them from the process? If the patrons want out of the school let us get new patrons. This campaign is only beginning. The north side is sick of losing schools, hospitals and everything else and the people will stand up and fight this.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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Again I thank the Deputies for giving me an opportunity to reply to the House. Regarding the current position on the amalgamation of St. Vincent's Secondary School and North Presentation Secondary School, Cork, I note the unanimity among the Deputies. I have to point out, and I am being absolutely truthful saying this, the decision-making authority for any amalgamation or change of status is the patron of the school in question. I am conscious that very recently specific concerns have been raised by the school communities. It is hugely important, and nobody knows that better than myself, that everybody within the school communities had an opportunity to express their thoughts, views and opinions on any process. My Department has engaged with representatives of the patrons. They too are fully aware of the concerns that have been raised by the wider community. As I outlined earlier it is now my understanding, following the engagement of the Department with the patrons that the patrons of the two schools are having continued discussions and are conscious and aware of the issues that have been raised by the school community-----

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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Does that mean it will be paused? Will it be stopped? I am asking a straight question.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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Following the engagement we have had with the representatives of the schools' patrons it is now my understanding that the two schools are having continued discussions and will be meeting again on Thursday this week with their representative schools. That is positive. It is important that we take the opportunity to hear the concerns that have been raised. It is important that the patrons in this instance have agreed to that meeting and to the opportunity to meet with the respective schools-----

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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Will parents be invited? They are closing the school and the students and parents have no input.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I must have the opportunity to answer. It is important and I have heard the voices that are being expressed in this Chamber and in the community. As a Department we have made contact with representatives of the patrons of the schools. They have committed to meeting on Thursday with the representative schools. That is just two days away. I look forward to the outcome of that discussion on Thursday.