Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Tá an babhta is déanaí d’arduithe i bpraghsanna fuinnimh atá á fhógairt ag comhlachtaí fuinnimh ag cur brú millteanach airgeadais ar oibrithe agus ar theaghlaigh ar fud an Stáit. Sa chéad leath den bhliain seo, dícheanglaíodh leictreachas in os cionn 700 teaghlach agus gás in os cionn 300 teaghlach. Caithfidh an Rialtas cosc dícheangail a thabhairt isteach anois agus cinntiú go mbeidh an cosc i bhfeidhm dóibh siúd atá ag úsáid méadar réamhíoctha.

We need a real plan from the Government that ensures every single household is protected from disconnections this winter. The latest round of energy price increases announced by the providers is putting real pressure on families and workers right across the State. In the first half of this year, over 700 households were disconnected from their electricity and over 300 had their gas disconnected. Since then, bills have skyrocketed. More and more families are falling behind. The possibility of these numbers increasing over the winter months is very real.

This week, Sinn Féin passed a Dáil motion calling on the Government to ensure all households would be protected from gas and electricity disconnections during the winter months. At the core of the motion were two demands. The first was a ban on disconnections now, instead of what the Government is planning which is in December. Second, this ban would apply to all households, including the hundreds of thousands of households that use prepay meters, which this Government has forgotten about and abandoned. This is the urgent action we need. As the weather turns, the fear of disconnection is very real and very present. Two weeks ago, the Taoiseach gave a commitment. He said that nobody would be disconnected this winter, including households using prepay meters. These were welcome words but they were only words, with no action to deliver on them.

Instead of taking responsibility to protect households from disconnection, the Minister told them to go to the local social welfare officer. To make matters worse, his Green Party colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien, went on TV on Sunday and told people not to look to the Government for help but to go to the Society of St. Vincent de Paul. Citing measures the Government has taken, he said: "St. Vincent de Paul and MABS are working with electricity providers to provide friendly credit." His comments reveal yet again that this Government is painfully out of touch. The Society of St. Vincent de Paul does incredible work. Nobody can take away from that. Only for it, many people would go hungry in this State. However, it beggars belief that a Minister of State would heap further pressure on it during such difficult times. It just is not good enough for the Government to outsource its responsibility to charities. We need a real plan. We need a plan from the Government that ensures every single household is protected from disconnections this winter. Some prepay companies already have bans on disconnections at weekends, public holidays or during other peak times. This ban should be extended to all households 24-7, providing that protection during the winter period.

The Minister needs to grasp this issue with urgency. We have been saying this for weeks and we have been saying it to his Government colleagues for weeks. This is in his portfolio. This is his responsibility. All households need to be protected from energy disconnections this winter. The Government must introduce a disconnection ban now and ensure those using prepay meters are included. I have some simple questions for the Minister. Does this Government have any intention whatsoever of giving action to the commitment the Taoiseach gave that nobody would be disconnected this winter, including those on prepaid meters, or was that just a false promise? Will the Minister do the right thing? Will he give action to those words? Will he introduce a ban on disconnections for households immediately and run it to the end of March? Crucially, will he ensure the hundreds of thousands of people who use prepay meters are included in this ban?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The Taoiseach was absolutely right that this Government is committing to protecting and helping every single family and household through this very difficult time in paying energy bills. There is a variety of measures. If they were easy and simplistic solutions that would be great but that is not the real world. In this real world what is actually working is the range of measures the Government is delivering on, such as increases in social welfare protection and increases in energy payments to households. As I understand it, last week Sinn Féin was arguing that we should be giving greater loans to people in difficulty, particularly households using prepay meters. From listening and talking to the experts in the area, they say that is not the right solution because it would put people into further debt. We have been talking to the energy supply companies and the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and setting out a policy in a co-ordinated and proper way. We will come out in the coming weeks with a further iteration of our combating energy poverty action plan. That will build on what actually works.

The Deputy says this measure is charity. I disagree. What we are talking about here is the community, the Governments, NGOs and others working together. It is not charity. It is appropriate that we use the tools that work. Sinn Féin has argued against special needs payments and says that should not be our approach. Sinn Féin's budget proposed a €15 million hardship fund. So far this year we have spent €38 million. The Minister for Social Protection has committed to making sure we have the staff and the resources so that any household in difficulty is able to avail of those funds. That is far better than the credit solution Sinn Féin is proposing, which would put families into further debt difficulties.

We launched the next phase of the #ReduceYourUse campaign yesterday. We did so in the offices of Alone because of its expertise and ability to find, target and help households, particularly those in older age groups, that might not find it easy to go through the social welfare system. We are targeting, identifying and helping them. It is right and appropriate to use the mechanisms that are in place and that are working. Rather than cutting people off, households can avail of the funds that are there and which can be deployed with advice from MABS, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and others. Why would we get rid of a system that has the financial resources to help those households and is working? We will continue to make sure it works right through this winter period.

It is so easy to suggest a facile solution to what is actually a very complex situation, where every household has different circumstances. The right approach in tackling poverty and energy poverty at this particular time is providing cash payments. That is the best way to help people through, as well as a range of other measures. The Commission for Regulation of Utilities, CRU, has already significantly changed its rules and recognised this problem, so if people do get into debt difficulties, they will have much easier repayment schedules. Anyone in such difficulty, particularly those on prepay meters, has to have access to the cheapest payment rates. It is these practical measures that actually address the problem and will get us through this difficult period.

As I said, if there are any gaps or any instances where people are not able to get resources to help, we will look at that and go back and change the policy. That commitment from the Government is real. That commitment to help our households is real in the billions of euro that have been provided in energy credit payments, which will start on 1 November. That is a measure where people get cash and we saw how the first payment worked. The number of families in arrears went from about 200,000 down to 150,000. That was from one payment. We have three further payments to deploy. That is real money and real help.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister said the Government will look at this "if there are any gaps". Let me point out the gap. There are 450,000 households that the Government has abandoned. The Minister spoke about energy credits. They are welcome and they will be available to people but there is also a ban on disconnections for hundreds of thousands of people who use bill payment. Why is that? It is because the Government recognises that this winter is going to be severe and that there should be a ban but for 450,000 people on prepay meters, the Government has decided to abandon them. The Minister said the Taoiseach was right. The Taoiseach did not say the Government would do all it can. He said nobody will be disconnected this winter. The disconnections are happening. The Minister talked about the real world. This is happening. People are self-disconnecting. That is what is really happening. Why can we not have a bit of fairness? There could be one house beside the next with the same financial problems and getting the same energy credit but one has the protection that it will not be disconnected this winter and the other does not. That is 450,000 households across the State, made up of vulnerable people who are looking into this winter and seeing a Government that has abandoned them. It needs to do the right thing. I ask the Minister to do the right thing and give action to the commitment that was given by the Taoiseach. He must introduce a ban on disconnections now, not in December, and introduce it for all households, giving them certainty that the heat and the lights will stay on over this winter period.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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Those 440,000 people have a whole range of different circumstances. A lot of people go on to prepay because it actually works for them and helps them in budgeting.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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The Minister does not believe that.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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It gives them the ability to reduce their bills and to reduce their use by about 8%. That is the experience of what is actually happening. There are complications in this because there is both gas and electricity. Yes, we will continue to look at the rules and regulations that would help them through a particularly difficult period. A lot of people disconnect when they are moving home or ending a tenancy. People are in a whole range of circumstances. To my mind, the critical thing is that people have the money so they do not have to disconnect. That ability, be it through funds from the likes of MABS, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and others, can help to-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Why do we have a ban on others being disconnected?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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There is nothing wrong with that as a mechanism to help people out. Furthermore, that €38 million in additional needs payments is a system that works. It is fair, targeted and correct. It is targeting where we need the money most. Provision for that is the right approach to help people through this particular period.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You have absolutely abandoned them.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Can we listen with respect?

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Your solution is a blank cheque to the energy companies.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You have abandoned them.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Even Downing Street-----

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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You have a guarantee that your electricity will not be disconnected, but 450,000 people have been abandoned by you.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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-----has walked away from the Sinn Féin solution, which is a blank cheque to the energy companies. We will help the people, not the energy companies.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Some 450,000 households have been abandoned by your Government and you have the cheek here to smirk across the floor.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Even Downing Street has walked away from it.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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If we proceed like this, proceedings will be abandoned. We have visitors in the Gallery. Tá daltaí thuas an staighre ag breathnú orainn. Iarraim ar na Teachtaí a gcuid tacaíochta a thabhairt dom. Bogfaimid ar aghaidh go dtí an Teachta Catherine Murphy.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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Today's from the Environmental Protection Agency, EPA, about the wastewater treatment plants is very concerning. Millions of litres of raw sewage continue to be discharged into our rivers and our seas every day. Only half of our sewage was treated to EU environmental standards in 2021. That is way below the EU average of 90%. In Ringsend, which is in the Minister's constituency, sewage is regularly spewed into Dublin Bay, destroying one of the city's most treasured natural amenities. A survey last year from SOS Dublin Bay found that more than one fifth of people who came into contact with water in Dublin Bay through swimming or watersports became ill. The survey calculated that the situation was so bad that it was the equivalent of 74 Olympic swimming pools of untreated wastewater being discharged into Dublin Bay every month.

We are told that the problem will not be rectified until 2025. In total, the EPA has identified 38 areas where work needs to be prioritised to prevent wastewater from harming our rivers, lakes, estuaries and coastal waters. Irish Water has no clear plan for 27 of these areas. I listened to Mr. Michael Tinsley from Irish Water on "Morning Ireland" this morning. He seemed to suggest that Irish Water has not provided timelines or plans to the EPA for this work because it regularly gets criticism for failing to meet those targets. In other words, Irish Water does not have confidence in its ability to deliver projects on time and it has simply stopped publishing deadlines so that it cannot be held accountable for failure.

Another concerning aspect of the report is that those areas where work has been completed are failing to meet EU environmental standards. Clonakilty, Kinsale and Ballymote have the necessary treatment infrastructure to meet the environmental standards. They met the standards in 2020 but failed to meet them in 2021. Will the Minister tell the House what is happening in that scenario? Can critical investment in our wastewater infrastructure be accelerated so that works are completed ahead of schedule? This is especially important in urban areas like Ringsend. These delays are having a disproportionately negative impact on water quality. Why are the towns where investment has been made in infrastructure failing to meet environmental standards?

I am concerned with the lack of accountability in Irish Water. We know it is not publishing deadlines because it does not want to face criticism for not meeting them. It is also the case that there is little accountability for budgets. Irish Water is not audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General and therefore is not within the remit of the Committee of Public Accounts. Given that Irish Water has a budget of more than €1 billion of public money, when is that going to change?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The Deputy is right to draw attention to the need to have clean water systems, which is a critically important issue for our country. We need to manage our systems, including our wastewater treatment and our public water systems, in a way that ensures the Irish public and the environment have water that is clean and is in pristine condition for bathing or for other reasons. That is not the case at the present time. It is important to recognise the work of the EPA. The report it published last week recognises that there is an issue around our wastewater treatment systems. However, it is also an issue around agricultural policy and forestry policy. A critical response is needed in the river basin management system so that we integrate all of the different aspects that affect water quality and get the proper water quality we deserve.

More immediately, with regard to Irish Water, first there is a recognition of the problem. The recent budget allocated €1.6 billion to Irish Water to address the key areas where there is a shortfall; for example, where raw sewage is being deposited, particularly when storm waters are mixing in. During yesterday's bad weather, storm water systems would have been running into the wastewater systems. That is a particular problem right across the country, particularly in my own city of Dublin.

Progress is being made. The money that is being spent will have an effect and make a difference. The key statistic the Deputy raised, correctly, is that currently only 50% of wastewater is being treated to EU standards. The completion of the Ringsend treatment plant will bring us up to the 90% she cited as the European norm. Ireland should go beyond the norm. That plant will be completed. I visited it and saw the work that is being carried out. It is a critical part in addressing one of the areas where we have a particular problem, which is in Dublin. We cannot stop there, however. We must go further. A total of €6 billion is committed in the capital programme between 2021 and 2025.

We need to continue on a systematic basis to address and invest in our water quality. This is something that was not always popular in previous Governments or in this House in previous years. We were not able to get the political agreement to raise and allocate money for wastewater and water treatment systems. The money is there now. With regard to Irish Water, structurally, there is now an opportunity to look at reporting or other mechanisms. We will be passing legislation to separate Irish Water out from Ervia. I suggest that any measures or proposals the Deputy has with regard to Irish Water's governance structure, or how it reports to this House, could be addressed in that legislation. I understand it will come to the House shortly.

The political commitment on the Government side, and I believe from the Opposition, is clear. We must improve our environmental protection in this country. Access to water that is healthy and clean is a basic right. We need to provide that through Irish Water and change those statistics around.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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The water framework directive dates to 2005. We are still not meeting the target. We are only at 50% at this stage. There have been two reports this week from the EPA, one of which the Minister has cited. If this is not about a shortage of money, it is very concerning that plans have not been provided to the EPA with targets for those other 27 projects. I also have concerns about the oversight of the spend and about value for money. For example, if Irish Water was under the remit of the Committee of Public Accounts, and if the Comptroller and Auditor General audited Irish Water's accounts, we could examine value for money. Value for money is not just about what is spent and whether the tender is the cheapest one; it is also about the failures. We are not able to get under the bonnet of that issue because it is not under the remit of the committee. I believe two pieces of legislation are required, and not just one. What is happening about the areas where capital investment was made and yet they are not meeting the standards?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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If the standards are not being met, Irish Water will have to go back. I have been to many towns. Our water supply is central not just in the context of our agricultural policy, our forestry policy and our river basins; it is also connected to our housing strategy and our housing policy. If one speaks to anyone across the country about the ability to build new housing, one will find that it is often to do with the wastewater treatment system.

In those towns, if that is a cause of the problem and there is expansion with which even the upgraded system cannot cope, then we will have to go back. We have to set a standard and reach it.

I will give a measure of progress, which is important, regarding the €1.6 billion that will be spent next year. We were in the European Court of Justice for failing to comply in relation to eight large urban areas. As I understand it, that €1.6 billion will go towards that. Two of those locations have been resolved, four will be resolved between 2023 and 2025 and the final two are scheduled to be completed before the end of this decade. That is just one area in which we are in contravention. We have to address first the areas in which we are held to account directly by the European courts. That is where the first response is but it cannot and should not end there.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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The programme for Government committed to fast-tracking the national broadband plan because, thanks to Covid, there was a realisation at long last that delivering broadband to every home in Ireland has the potential to transform our economy, and nowhere more so than in rural Ireland. We witnessed a spike in local house prices as high-tech jobs relocated from the Dublin docks to rural townlands, with the knock-on potential to reduce the climate impact of transport in rural areas by reducing the need to commute long distances. Despite this, the Climate Change Advisory Council report from the OECD on reducing Ireland's transport emissions makes no reference to broadband or remote working. This is despite the OECD saying there was an opportunity for policymakers to design and implement meaningful and integrated policy packages that prioritise transformative actions and deliver the emissions reductions required.

As a former climate Minister, I am all too aware of the bizarre system whereby official Ireland has dismissed the transformative impact of the roll-out of broadband infrastructure on carbon emissions, despite the fact that 37% of our population live in rural areas. Not only has the Government made no attempt to deliver on its programme for Government commitment on broadband, but it has also failed to meet its most recent target of having 20% of the public service working remotely by the end of 2021.

One way to achieve remote working targets is to establish public service remote working hubs in every decentralised public building across the country. We have hundreds of available spaces with all the services, including secure networks, and the added bonus of ensuring staff could work in clusters, which would break down the silo mentality we have in our public service.

We also need to use the digital hubs located across the country as a stimulus to support private sector employers rolling out hybrid working to their employees. This overcomes the health and safety and HR challenges of home working while providing employees with the opportunity to work in a communal environment with the necessary infrastructure but without the need to commute long distances. It also provides a unique opportunity for innovation that could lead to significant employment creation through spin-off companies. To achieve the proper utilisation of both public and private sector employment hubs requires a government that recognises the climate and well-being potential of such hubs and requires engagement with employers and employees with a can-do approach. Sadly, there is no indication that the Government is coming to that realisation yet.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The national broadband plan had difficulties in the first two years due to Covid, problems at local authority level, the technical aspect around ducting and so on. Those problems are starting to be resolved and the plan is on track. We will meet our targets for this year. Some 94,500 premises are ready to be connected; 21,100 of those are already doing so. Schools and the broadband connection point centres across the country are in place. We can never be happy that it is fast enough but it is starting to deliver.

I agree with the Deputy's central premise. There is huge potential for life to come back into the centres of towns and villages across rural Ireland, using broadband and new remote working systems. The Tánaiste will deliver legislation in that regard shortly. I accept this is a potential we need to deliver on. The Government recognises that. It set out a strategy in May 2021, a year and a half ago, that it would establish 400 remote working hubs by 2025, of which 300 are already up and running. They are in place and working. The other 100 will be done well in advance of that target deadline. They are in just the right places, typically the centres of towns and villages, in old courthouses, cinemas or convents. The Government has provided €100 million through the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, to help to deliver those and they are being delivered. The Minister also introduced, very cleverly, a voucher scheme so people could go in and trial it, test it, get used to it and see if it works for them. That is the practical and clever way. She has also resourced the local authorities so they can promote and make use of the hub network.

My sense, with which Deputies opposite might disagree, is that it is happening in towns around the country. It varies, depending on local circumstances, but we are starting to see the advent of remote working coming out of Covid, when different patterns were set in place. New broadband technologies mean one can share and send files, have Zoom meetings and do many other things. It is starting to happen. It is working. We need to go further. We need to use Croí Cónaithe funding to turn around derelict or disused buildings in the centre of towns, so people are living there as well as working. The towns that are seeing it happen are the ones that are progressing. It helps us to address our housing crisis. Rather than everyone having to be in the cities or expensive and difficult urban areas, we are using our incredible network of 19th-century market towns. We turned away from them in previous decades, but we are turning back now. Putting town centres first, using hubs, using broadband and allowing remote working is the way forward.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Sadly, the Minister still has not acknowledged that remote working has an impact on reducing our climate emissions. The national broadband plan will deliver fibre to rural areas and families, who will come off the existing fibre broadband services. That provides an opportunity to improve the quality of wireless broadband services to families who are further down the list in terms of deployment areas by reusing that equipment.

I want to see the wireless equipment that is being taken out of some 30,000 homes over the coming year being used to connect families in more isolated areas to a wireless broadband service. To allow this to happen, councils and State agencies need to provide sites to these wireless operators so they can install transmitters to distribute the wireless broadband services. Because the extension of these services will have a short life span, up to the end of 2027, when the national broadband plan will be completed, these shites - sites - should be provided rent-free by councils and State agencies, in a proactive measure to reach out to the most isolated communities across the country.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I will look at that proposal and we will give it real consideration. The story of broadband in this country is not just about the national broadband plan. There is real progress across the country, within those areas and without. We have major investment by Eir, Virgin Media, Siro and other operators, as well as the national broadband plan, which is seeing competition, lower prices, higher speeds and better services. The strategy that works in broadband involves working collectively with industry, being flexible and innovating. That is what we need to do.

I will bring that idea back to the Department and we will see if that can be part of the growing success story. Our broadband statistics, on any analysis or European league table, show us rising rapidly and that will be good for Irish people.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I am sure Deputy Naughten's "sh-" was inadvertent.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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We were hoping you would let it go. You are after bringing attention to it and making matters worse.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I am bringing attention to Deputy Michael Healy-Rae that he has three minutes.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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Thank you very much. First of all, could I start off by welcoming the stuttering group from Ireland?

I want to welcome them warmly. They want to create awareness around stuttering. They have an event on in the audiovisual room at 2 p.m.

I want to declare quickly an interest in what I will speak on, namely self-catering in Ireland, and I also want to highlight that I own a guest house. But when I speak I do so on behalf of the constituents I am here to represent and who have been continuously on to me about this matter.

We have a housing crisis, that is very clear, and we have to get more supply, that is very clear, but targeting people in the short-term letting is a flawed tactic. Up until now, operators of short-term lets in rent pressure zones needed to apply for planning permission to run their business but mostly, when they apply, they are refused. People who are short-term letting are more likely to leave their homes and properties lying idle for a family member or sell it rather than rent it out long term. They do not want to go from short term to long term.

For example, Killarney is full up at the moment but it is not at capacity because of tourism or short term lets but because a lot of free bed spaces in the town are taken up with people seeking asylum and refuge here. Now, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that but it is putting a serious strain on services. For instance, Dr. Gary Stack was on Radio Kerry recently explaining the pressures that is putting on the medical service to those in the town.

The Government has said that it will regulate and manage the short-term lets and it will get more properties on a short-term basis back into the long-term rental market. This is not going to happen. The Government is actually instructing local authority enforcement officers to go out and frighten people into applying for planning which will not be granted and that the properties will simply lie idle as these operators, some of whom have operated in the short-term rental market for over 30 years, will not rent out long term. The Government is trying its best to tell these people, who have worked so hard, saved up, paid for their houses or properties, got a mortgage and tried to make an income from it, what to do with their own property and that it is to be rented long term. This will have the opposite effect entirely. It is so wrongful for the Government to think that it can force people to do something with the property that they own. We are living in a free society after all. These properties did not fall out of the sky to these people. They worked with the sweat off their brow and they broke their backs in many cases to build, maintain and own their properties. And now the Government thinks that it will dictate to them and tell them what they are to do with it? It will not happen.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I will start by welcoming the group. I am someone who had a very bad stutter as a young man and boy. I got help at the age of 16 years or so. I occasionally still do stutter. It is sometimes in the middle of a speech here in the Dáil. You know it is coming up and you still have to get through it. I very much recognise the group's role and work.

I think the people of this country have shown remarkable strength of character and lived up to the Bible story, that I often think of, of the Samaritan not passing, but providing shelter and support for those who are in real, most dramatic need. The people of our country have done that, in Kerry, Donegal, Clare and right the way around the country. The Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, and his team have done the most incredibly difficult job. There is something like 58,000 people from Ukraine and 12,500 from international protection. That is way beyond - it is like a full Aviva Stadium has arrived. We have had to house people. That is at a really critical point. No one should underestimate the scale of the challenge and the difficult decisions we will have to make now to continue that approach, which is the right approach I think we all agree. But it is going to be challenging.

No one is throwing away or disregarding the rights of property owners. We could have a wider discussion about our Constitution and whether we have the correct balance with the right to housing, property and so on but we are not going to go towards a system where the rights of property are completely removed or taken away. There is real need for us to look at the private rental sector. We all know it is not working and it does need to change. It is not an attack on landlords or taking away their rights. We may need incentives or other measures but we need to be very flexible and quick particularly in the next six months with property because if the numbers keep coming, 1,500 every week, we will have to show further flexibility and innovation, working with landlords and the whole variety of different accommodation providers that we might need to use. I do not disagree that we have to work with the landlords and make sure that it works for them in Killarney, Kerry and every part of the country but we do need to provide further accommodation and we will have to be very innovative in how we do that.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I will highlight an analogy on what Government gets and what Government wants. Take the Minister. This year, he wanted to stop people from going to the bogs and cutting turf. What did he get? He was personally the cause of more people going to the bog this year than ever before. People who used to cut two hoppers, for example, cut four or five. Their attitude was that they would fill the shed because he might stop us completely in the future. Thankfully, there are sheds full but it is no thanks to the Minister. That highlights what the Government wants and tries to force people to do sometimes has the opposite effect. If the Minister thinks that he can coerce, bully or force people into changing a system they have had, for example, short-term lets, and can say to someone who might have an apartment alongside the house and who is doing short term lets, Airbnb or whatever, into long-term lets, believe me it will have the opposite effect and will actually hurt what he is trying to help exactly as what happened to him with the turf.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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You have to have the people with you and work with them. There is a revolution happening in this country at the moment. It is a solar revolution. In Kerry and elsewhere, the Deputy can talk to the companies delivering that. They will say that the phone never stops ringing. It rings morning, noon and night, with Irish people waking up to the realisation that using our own clean, sustainable power systems from the sun, wind and elsewhere is the cheaper and better way to go. We are going gangbusters. It is taking off and it will continue for the years to come because it makes sense. It is cheaper, quicker, cleaner and easier.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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We are gone what?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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It is the same story on retrofitting. I am responding to the Deputy's point on the turf. It is the same story on retrofitting. I had a meeting with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland the other day. Similarly, it told me that Irish people across the country are investing in improving their homes - you do not need to burn things to keep warm - and then people have a valuable, healthy house. That is what is happening. Tens of thousands of people are investing in that way. Similarly we need to get people to invest in property and to invest in the rental sector-----

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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Thank you, Minister.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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-----both short term and long term.