Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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83. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the quantum of capital funding which he envisages will be available to draw down over a timeframe to deliver on the aspirations to halt the brain drain in the south east as part of this framework; the new courses, new disciplines and new buildings that are being put in place as part of South East Technological University configuration; the timeframe for this achievement given that he has made great efforts to deliver amalgamation of the new university; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [52079/22]

Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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My question relates to the South East Technological University, SETU, and the quantum of capital funding that the Minister hopes to announce to deliver on the aspirations to halt the brain drain, to create new courses and to deliver new buildings and new capital structures in SETU.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I appreciate the concise way in which the Deputy delivered a very lengthy written question. I thank Deputy Shanahan for raising the question and for his ongoing engagement with me in regard to SETU, and particularly in regard to Waterford city and county. I look forward to visiting on Monday and engaging further with the Deputy there.

The multi-campus South East Technological University, SETU, will be transformative for the south-east region. Addressing the economic and social needs of the south east is at the centre of its mandate building on the previous achievements which I want to herald of the Waterford Institute of Technology and the Institute of Technology, Carlow. SETU provides a high quality multi-campus environment with a strong focus on science and technology programmes aligned with skills needs in the region and nationally. It also engages in industry-oriented research and plays a pivotal role in facilitating access to, and progression through, higher education. In this context I am confident that SETU, our country’s newest university, will play a key role in retaining and developing talent in the south-east region. I am strongly committed to supporting the university on its campus development plans. I am strongly committed to expanding the footprint of the university in Waterford. An engineering, computing and general teaching building in Waterford and a science and health building in Carlow are being advanced through the higher education public private partnership programme. I expect news on that very shortly. Also, next year, construction is scheduled to commence on significant energy retrofit projects in Waterford and Carlow. Engagement is ongoing with the university in regard to the expansion of the Waterford campus footprint. Steps are also being taken in regard to the Wexford campus. The Deputy can be assured that these developments remain key priorities for me and for my Department.

The specific level of investment as in all higher education institutions, and this is not specific to the south east, is always informed by the scope and pace of capital projects and will be decided in the context of my Department’s overall allocation under the national development plan. We issue capital calls and we invite universities to apply, and the same will be the case with the SETU. We have, however, separate and distinct from what I just said, made specific provision in regard to securing an expanded site in Waterford and for that there is not a need to compete with other projects in and across higher education institutions.

Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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It is now 11 years since Fine Gael promised Waterford a national university. It also promised this to the south east in 2011. Since that time no investment has been made on the campus in Waterford Institute of Technology, WIT, despite the fact that the Government and the Higher Education Authority, HEA, blocked any developments and this ended up at the Committee for Public Accounts as well. The Minister told us that the technological university was the only show in town for many years and that it would be enough to meet the needs of our region and our young to set them up for professional achievement. I have had the benefit of the Minister’s formal answer, which I reviewed earlier. Basically what he is announcing is a reannouncement of an engineering building in 2007. What is worse is that in the climate we are currently in we have no confidence that it is going to be built under a PPP mechanism. There is no exceptionalism mentioned anywhere in the Minister’s answer for the fact that SETU will be the only third level educational stream in the south east, unlike every other region in the country.

I ask the Minister why the people of the south east should believe that this Government has any aspirations or desire to address the needs of higher education. I have asked the Minister a number of times about capital funding and the quantum and all he has said to me is there is a strong commitment and a breadth of ambition. That is all I have heard.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The people of the south east can believe us because we are delivering. The Deputy can decide whether or not to get on board with that but we are delivering. There is a technological university in the south east. Job done. The staff and the students voted for it. Veronica Campbell, the former bursar of Trinity College Dublin, is the president, and Paddy Prendergast, the former provost of Trinity College Dublin, is chairing the governing authority. It is going really well. There is an excitement in Waterford and in the south east. There is an excitement across the political divide, by the way, whether one is in the Sinn Féin Party, the Fine Gael Party, Fianna Fáil Party or the Green Party. They are all getting on board and welcoming this university. That has happened. The staff and the students voted for it and there is cross-party support for it. It is game on. The Deputy can misrepresent my answer if he wishes. There is not another university in the country that has a separate commitment above and beyond competitive calls to expand the footprint in its city. I know that because I have access to the capital budget and there is not another one. I am not going to outline on the floor of the Dáil how we are going to negotiate commercially securing various things.

As a member of the Committee of Public Accounts, the Deputy knows how these processes work. We are investing in Waterford and the south east. The naysayers are wrong. South East Technological University is now there and was delivered by this Government.

Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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I might remind the Minister there was never a need to buy additional land in Waterford. We already had three sites with planning permission that could have been developed. I have seen how Government can walk through walls since I have come in here. I saw it when Deputy McHugh moved forward the public private partnership, PPP, for the Munster Technological University MTU. I have seen two buildings now delivered at €106 million each to University College Cork, UCC, and another €56 million given to the MTU in Cork and nothing done in the south east at this time. The Minister has no problem committing dozens of millions of euro to other projects, but not to Waterford.

I have asked for nearly two years what we will get out of this. Essentially, the Minister is signally his intent all the time. Expectations are very high now in Waterford, largely because the Minister has raised them, to be fair. If the Minister comes down next week with the Tánaiste and if the breadth of their ambition is not €250 million over three years, as I said before, then they will not do anything to halt a brain drain. The Minister is creating no exceptionalism for this and will have broken promises, yet again, to the people of Waterford and the south east. I hope that will not happen, but I think it may. I do not sense any great commitment here, to be honest, or any straight answers that we can expect that quantum of money.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It used to be that the Deputy did not believe that I was going to deliver the university. Now we have delivered the university and he does not believe that I will properly fund it. I will fund it.

Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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It is just a structure.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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No, it is not just a structure.

Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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It is just a structure.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Deputy for a little degree of positivity. For the first time in the history of Waterford, people in Waterford city can get a university degree. People in Waterford county and in the south east, the Industrial Development Authority, IDA, Enterprise Ireland and even Sinn Féin, with respect to it, believe in it. The Opposition and the Government have come together on this. However, it does not work for the Deputy politically and we wish him well.

I am very clear on this issue and I am fed up with being misrepresented on it. We will expand the footprint. If the Deputy does not believe that we need to expand the footprint, that is a difference of a political view.

Matt Shanahan (Waterford, Independent)
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Show us the money.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The university and business people believe it. We will not negotiate the commercial amounts on the floor of the Dáil. However, we will get on and do it. Many people told me that this Government will never deliver a university, but we have. Now those same people want to say we will not expand the footprint; we are.