Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

7. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection her plans, if any, to review the community employment scheme; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [50108/22]

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What are the plans to review the community employment, CE, schemes?

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am very conscious of the important role CE and other schemes play and the Minister and I want to support them as best we can. In addition to providing valuable occupational experience and training as a stepping-stone to employment for people who are unemployed, schemes such as CE also provide important, and in many cases essential, services to their local communities.

Given the strong labour market performance the number of unemployed people dependent on social welfare payments continues to fall. While this is very welcome it also means that the number of candidates available to CE schemes also falls. This creates an obvious challenge. Having said that, it is not an insurmountable one and working together with CE sponsors we can, and have, devised changes that will help the schemes to continue to support their local communities.

For example, following engagement with scheme sponsors the Minister and I announced a number of reforms and enhancements to CE last December and again in June of this year. These changes included a provision to allow CE participants who reach 60 years of age to remain on CE until they reach state pension age. We also updated the baseline year for CE to enable other placements to be extended. More recently, as part of budget 2023, we announced an increase of €5 per week or just over 22% in the weekly CE allowance. This increase is in addition to the increase in the core social welfare payments of €12 per week and this means the minimum payment on CE will amount to €247.50 per week. This is the lowest rate of payment and people with children or other dependants receive additional payments and these are also increasing as part of our budget measures. We also changed the candidate referral process. Schemes have been given new flexibility to allow them directly to recruit eligible candidates to fill 30% of places but are also mandated to accept and place at least 60% of people referred by Intreo. This is to ensure that places do not go unfilled when there are candidates available from the live register. Schemes have also been granted flexibility to extend individual placements and to retain existing participants in cases where no replacement is immediately available.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State. CE schemes are designed to help those in long-term unemployment, who are disadvantaged or who find it impossible to get mainstream work to have a job in their local communities. They provide childcare help, elderly care and drug rehabilitation services. The €5 extra for CE scheme workers in the budget was a modest increase and as a result it is difficult to find people to participate in the scheme. I have raised this both in the Dáil and at my party's recent think-in, held in Mullingar. These programmes not only benefit participants but also the community by providing essential services. However, the scheme does not pay enough for providing such great work within the community. I can only say it is not fit for purpose. I advocate for this to be changed. Fianna Fáil has always been a strong supporter and advocate of CE schemes and one of the first ones started in my own area. However, the €5 increase in the budget was absolutely unacceptable.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. It has been a while since there was an increase in the top-up for CE. While we would all like to have more than €5 going on it that is what we got this year. We all would have preferred more.

I disagree vehemently with the assertion that CE is not fit for purpose. It is one of the most impactful and useful schemes for both individuals and communities across the country. Of all the schemes the Government supports, it is one of the best. It manages to perform two important functions. It gives people who are quite far from the labour market another option in life and opens up pathways to people who would not otherwise have a way into that market. At the same time, it provides, as the Deputy has acknowledged, essential and important community services. On the fundamentals of CE, it is one of the best schemes we have.

I acknowledge there are issues with it. I acknowledge we are having difficulties getting participants onto it. I would like to see better supports for CE participants in the future as well.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am aware much work has been done. We can look at the rural social scheme and the eligibility for Tús being extended to persons in receipt of disability payments. There is the new flexibility to allow CE schemes to recruit eligible candidates directly to fill 30% of places. However, we must be practical. The reason communities cannot get people on CE schemes is because CE does not pay them, first of all. If you have to travel 15 or 20 miles to where that scheme is you are losing money, though I do not even know that it is about losing money. I am not saying the scheme is not a great one, because it is. However, why are people not participating in it? Why are they not getting more money? The reason is it just does not work out for them. They are doing this extra work that they love. I compliment everyone involved in the scheme. I know so many in my own community who do so much work.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

However, everyone I am talking to lately in all the different areas have come to me looking for CE scheme workers and cannot get them.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am moving on to Deputy Stanton as he wanted to come in on this.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This scheme is good for the community and for the participants. I agree with the Minister of State that we would all like to see more money being made available for the participants. I have two questions for him. Has any consideration been given to facilitating those who are at pension age also carrying on with the scheme? Many people over 66 years would like to and are able to but cannot. Is extra emphasis being put on encouraging people with refugee status to get on the courses? Due to the great work the Government has done we are approaching full employment and that is why it is difficult to get participants for these schemes in many areas.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I think we all welcome the work CE scheme participants carry out. It can be everything from drug addiction services right through to many pieces of work in the community. We need to review CE with a view to strengthening it. I welcome what has been said previously. We need to look at the pension age question Deputy Stanton has raised. Beyond that, for us to make this entirely sustainable we need to deal with the issue of CE supervisors' pay and conditions. We all know that is an ongoing issue and we need a whole-of-Government response to deal with that.

Joe O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will have a go at responding to all that in a single minute. We are being very practical about CE. There was a review published at the end of last year but we are not stopping at that. We are trying to increase the flow in, to retain the people we have and to stop the flow out as well. We have taken policy measures in each of those three areas. As for broadening the pool of people, plans are at an advanced stage for a new pilot scheme to extend CE eligibility to people who are qualified adults on a jobseeker claim.

On the pension age question, we are looking at everything we can to broaden the pool and retain people but that is one of the suggestions we are slower to consider, to be honest. The qualifying age for refugees is I think 18 years so there are broader qualifying criteria for them as well. In short, we are looking at everything we can to broaden the pool and get more people in as well as stemming the flow out.

I acknowledge the CE supervisors question. My officials had exploratory meetings with union reps in September. There is an agreement to have another meeting in the near future as well.