Dáil debates

Tuesday, 11 October 2022

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

An Garda Síochána

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for Education for attending but I am disappointed the Minister for Justice is not here. I know it is late but it is not good enough that she is not prepared to take this Topical Issue matter. I attended a meeting last Thursday night in Moyle Rovers GAA Club, Clonmel. I thank the caretaker, Mr. O'Connor. More than 500 people came from far and near in fear and trepidation. Many of these wonderful people provided a community centre and provide for their families and community in the excellent parish of Powerstown Lisronagh and the town of Clonmel and beyond.

We have an appalling lack of gardaí in Clonmel. It is historic. To give a comparison with Kilkenny, on any given day or shift, there would be 12 or at least ten gardaí in Kilkenny whereas we have four, five or six in Clonmel. It is the same in Wexford town and Thurles up the road from us, which have plenty of gardaí. We do not have the numbers in Clonmel Garda station, which covers Carrick-on-Suir, Fethard, Mullinahone and other areas. Cahir is suffering badly as well.

I will challenge one thing tonight. The meeting was attended by Superintendent Willie Leahy, Sergeant Kieran O'Regan and other gardaí who were off duty and live in the area. We heard loud and clear that many people are being intimidated by roving gangs under the auspices of lamping and hunting, both of which are illegal. They are doing awful damage, frightening livestock and householders, damaging wire, waterpipes, land and property and injuring cattle. People telephoning the Garda station last week were told that the incidents were not being reported. There is something badly wrong. This is the nub of my question tonight. I believe the figures for the numbers of complaints to An Garda Síochána both nationally and locally are being manicured. We have a joint policing committee, JPC, meeting on Friday at which I hope to explore this matter further with Chief Superintendent Derek Smart who is very amenable, in fairness. Superintendent Leahy will also be at the meeting. The crime statistics being rolled out show they are down here and there. The Garda numbers are appallingly low. I am shocked that there are only 20 - fiche - gardaí in Templemore. I am shocked that there were not enough applications to fill the last vacancy. This is a worrying situation. Why is that? It is because the Garda is not being resourced.

I put it to the Garda Commissioner, and lay it at his door again tonight, that he is putting Garda lives in danger by not giving them enough backup and support. I do not say that lightly. It is shocking to expect a single garda, male or female, to be out alone at 3 a.m. or 4 a.m. in rural areas or in a town. We have huge problems in Clonmel, a fine midland town that used to be the biggest in the country with great people, but drugs and all kinds of anti-social behaviour are taking over in the middle of the day, not to mention at night. Gardaí are in danger of losing these areas. Carrick-on-Suir is the same way, with an appalling lack of numbers. People ring the Garda station and are not getting responses. I am not blaming the gardaí on duty; they are doing their best. They do not have the numbers, support or backup.

We need an emergency task force to be set up to deal with the situation in the Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir district. It needs to be sent in from Dublin or wherever to deal with this problem and strike it out. We also have to deal with the legal eagles in the courts where free legal aid is provided 50, 60 or 100 times. It must be three strikes and you are out. Tagging legislation was passed by this House. I do not know if anybody has ever been tagged. Tagging is not likely for people with several convictions. They should be tagged to determine where they are and to be able to trace their whereabouts.

We see heinous crimes committed by people out on bail and not on remand. We see the revolving doors. It is totally unacceptable for decent people who pay their taxes and deserve the protection of the law. They pay for community and text alert schemes out of their own pockets. The people are willing. No police force in the world can police without the support of the people. The Garda has the support of the people or will have it, but there needs to be a quid pro quo and the Garda needs to have resources and the numbers to help when it is needed.

Photo of Norma FoleyNorma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy McGrath for raising the issue. I am responding on behalf of the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee.

The Deputy will appreciate that under section 26 of the Garda Síochána Act 2005, as amended, the Garda Commissioner is responsible for the management and administration of Garda business, which includes the allocation of Garda resources. The Minister for Justice has no statutory role in regard to these operational policing matters. The Minister is assured that Garda management keeps the distribution of resources under continual review in the context of policing priorities and crime trends to ensure their optimal use. I understand it is a matter for the divisional chief superintendent to determine the optimal distribution of duties among the personnel available to him or her, having regard to the profile of each area within the division.

The Department of Justice is committed to ensuring that An Garda Síochána has the resources it needs to perform its critical role in the community. In budget 2023 an unprecedented €2.14 billion was allocated to An Garda Síochána, representing an increase of €78 million on 2022. This includes provision for the recruitment of 1,000 new gardaí and more than 400 Garda staff. I am informed that as of 31 August 2022, there were 399 Garda members assigned to the Tipperary division. Clonmel district is comprised of five stations with 76 Garda members assigned to it. This represents an increase of more than 4% since the end of December 2019. The district is supported by 17 Garda staff assigned to Clonmel station as of the end of August this year.

The Government has committed to building a new Garda station in Clonmel as part of the justice sector private-public partnership. This is being done alongside a proposed new station in Macroom, County Cork, and a family law complex at Hammond Lane, Dublin 7. Planning permission was granted for the new station in 2021. The Department continues to engage with An Garda Síochána, the Office of Public Works and the National Development Finance Agency with a view to progressing the project.

The construction of the new Garda station in Clonmel is an important development for policing in the area. Once completed the station will provide a modern, fit-for-purpose facility for Garda members and staff as well as the public interacting with gardaí. The Deputy may be aware that the Garda Commissioner is continuing the roll-out of the new Garda operating model. The operating model is designed to make each division the central unit of policing administration rather than the current smaller district model and will provide more front-line gardaí, increased Garda visibility and a wider range of policing services for local areas.

In the period 2017 to 31 August 2022, 875.5 Garda members were reassigned to operational roles under the Garda reassignment initiative, and a further 306 posts were identified as suitable for civilianisation and redeployment in line with the programme for Government commitment to boost the redeployment of Garda members from non-core duties to front-line duties for the benefit of communities across the country, including that of Clonmel.

The Minister is conscious of the particular crime concerns facing rural communities. The publication just last month of Rural Safety Plan 2022–2024 by the Minister of State, Deputy James Browne, seeks to address these and provide support information to rural communities. The plan is available at www.gov.ie/justice.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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That is a shocking reply. The Minister for Justice needs to take heed. She is accountable to this House. I am sick and tired of Ministers coming in here to refer to the Garda Commissioner, head of the HSE and all these people. They are not elected or accountable to the people. We are supposed to have a Government here. We are celebrating 100 years of our freedom, having set up our Republic. The response is shocking. The Minister for Education can read out all the figures she likes. What about retirements? What about people who are out sick? What about people on other duties? These are masked by the figures. Court duty takes up an enormous amount of time. The Judiciary here must be tackled as well. It should not be tackled, as such, but the laws must be changed so they will not be so lenient. The revolving door must stop and tagging should be introduced immediately. The public must be reassured that the Garda has the resources. It does not have them, despite the figures about lay people being appointed and all the rest of it. We have good lay staff in Clonmel and good reserve gardaí serving Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir. We have good community police in Sergeant O'Regan, Sergeant Denis Ryan, Fiona, Clare and Diarmuid but they have not enough given the size of Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir. We are talking about a community of 30,000-plus. Calls are going unanswered and are not being logged. A person told me this evening he got the first Garda victims-of-crime report after having made about 20 phone calls. It was the first one he got this week. Therefore, it is quite clear that the figures are being manicured and distorted to give a different situation. The Minister needs to cop on to that, deal with it and not hide behind this charade. Garda members are unable to deal with the phone calls. Somebody has to man the station all the time and then deal with calls. There are people waiting two, three or four hours, or maybe no one turns up. That is not the fault of the gardaí; it is the fault of the system. I am holding the Commissioner to account. He is entitled to protect his members and the citizens of this country. For the Minister for Education to read out waffle from the Minister for Justice of the kind she read out is simply unforgivable. It is despicable and disgraceful. I do not have words in my vocabulary to describe how bad it is. It is time we copped on, cut out the dead wood, dealt honestly with the hard-working people and protected them.

Photo of Norma FoleyNorma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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Again, on behalf of the Minister for Justice, I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. The Minister would like to reassure him that Garda numbers have increased substantially in recent years, from 12,943 Garda members and 1,999 Garda staff in 2016 to 14,283 Garda members and 3,117 Garda staff at the end of August this year. This is an increase in gardaí of more than 10%. There has been an almost 56% increase in Garda staff in recent years.

The Government has made an ongoing and firm commitment to support An Garda Síochána financially and provide it with the resources it needs to support more visible policing. This method will ensure that communities such as Clonmel are safe and that the people in them feel safe. However, I emphasise that, as recommended by the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland, responsibility for community safety does not rest solely with an Garda or the Department of Justice. It is a whole-of-government responsibility. This principle is the cornerstone of the Government's policy on community safety and, significantly, will be provided for in law by the new policing security and community safety Bill. Under the legislation, when drafted, new, broader local community-safety partnerships will bring all services in the community together at local authority level, replacing the existing joint policing committees to serve as a comprehensive forum for discussion and decisions on community priorities. Three partnerships are currently being piloted and their operational experiences will feed into nationwide policy roll-out following the conclusion of the pilot period at the end of 2023.

I will relay to the Minister for Justice the points the Deputy has raised but I reiterate that, since 31 August 2022, there have been 399 Garda members assigned to County Tipperary. Clonmel district is comprised of five stations with 76 Garda members assigned to it. This represents an increase of more than 4% since end December 2019. The district has been supported by 17 Garda staff, assigned to Clonmel station at the end August this year. I will bring the points the Deputy has raised to the attention of the Minister for Justice. That is the update I have received.