Dáil debates

Tuesday, 11 October 2022

Ceisteanna - Questions

Cabinet Committees

4:15 pm

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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17. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinetcommittee that deals with matters relating to justice will next meet. [44843/22]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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18. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [48035/22]

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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19. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the high-level oversight board for the zero tolerance strategy to be jointly led by the Secretary General of his Department. [48470/22]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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20. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee that deals with matters relating to justice will next meet. [49961/22]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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21. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [49962/22]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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22. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee that deals with matters relating to justice will next meet. [49964/22]

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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23. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [49965/22]

Photo of Pádraig O'SullivanPádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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24. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [49967/22]

Photo of Jennifer Murnane O'ConnorJennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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25. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [49968/22]

Photo of Niamh SmythNiamh Smyth (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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26. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee that deals with matters relating to the arts and culture will next meet. [49969/22]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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27. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the work of the high-level oversight board for the zero-tolerance strategy to be jointly led by the Secretary General of his Department. [50012/22]

Photo of Ruairi Ó MurchúRuairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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28. To ask the Taoiseach when the Cabinet Committee on social affairs and equality will next meet. [50015/22]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 17 to 28, inclusive, together.

The Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality oversees implementation of programme for Government commitments in the areas of social policy including sport, equality, arts and culture as well as children and youth affairs, and public services including matters relating to justice, policing reform and community safety. The Cabinet committee last met on 16 May and will meet again in the coming weeks.

Recent public policy advancements in the area of social affairs includes publication of the third national strategy on domestic, sexual and gender-based violence. The central aim of this strategy is to bring about zero tolerance towards domestic, sexual and gender-based violence in Irish society, as well as the attitudes and assumptions that underpin it.

Another important goal of the strategy is to improve the co-ordination and delivery of services for those affected by these forms of violence. In this regard, a new statutory domestic, sexual and bender-based violence agency with political oversight of the strategy will be established, situated within the Cabinet committee on social affairs and equality, which I chair.

In addition, a high-level oversight board, chaired by the Secretaries General to the Departments of the Taoiseach and Justice, will be established to ensure that actions are being implemented successfully and within the specified timelines. The high-level oversight board is expected to hold its first meeting in the near future.

In addition to meetings of the Cabinet committee, I have regular engagements with Ministers, both at Cabinet and individually, to discuss priority issues relating to their Departments.

A number of meetings have also been held between my officials and officials from relevant Departments on a range of social policy issues since the establishment of the Cabinet committee in July 2020. That would have involved a number of meetings with a number of partnership groups in different parts of the city, including Ballyfermot, Ballymun and the north-east inner city. I am anxious to try to develop a new policy framework to govern how we deal with communities that require significant multidisciplinary supports on a partnership basis into the future.

4:25 pm

Photo of Gino KennyGino Kenny (Dublin Mid West, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This Government and previous Governments have failed to grasp the winds of change in drug reform. When other states are changing course, I would argue that this State has stagnated in drug reform. In the past 20 years 10,000 people in this State have died of drug-related deaths, which is an incredible statistic. That is 500 people every year in the State. I would argue that if these people had different postal addresses and codes, the response from this Government and previous Governments would have been very different. We are in an unsustainable situation and the amount of resources that go into criminalising people for drug use does not work. Even US President Joe Biden made an announcement last week on reform in the US policy on cannabis use and so forth, and that is welcome, but in this State we criminalise people for using drugs. The majority of people in the prison population are there for drug offences. The resources that go into criminalising people simply do not work and we need to do something very different.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O'Gorman, announced last month that the Government had approved the domestic violence leave report. Recommendation 4 of that report states that employers should retain the right to request proof of abuse from a victim seeking leave. This recommendation reflects the disappointing and regressive position contained within IBEC's submission to the Department. Such a provision would be deeply inappropriate and totally unnecessary. When questioned at last week's meeting of the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the Tánaiste stated that he did "not see how evidential proof could be a requirement of the legislation" and that such a provision would make the legislation effectively "unworkable". Does the Taoiseach agree with the Tánaiste on this and if so, will he give a commitment that there will be no requirement for proof of abuse included in this legislation?

I also ask the Taoiseach to reconsider the Government’s decision to cut in half the existing entitlement. The standard leave entitlement provided for in the public and private sector is ten days, as is the statutory provision in the North. When Fianna Fáil first committed to the introduction of this leave in 2018 it committed to ten days of leave. Reducing this to five days also goes against existing Government policy. Last year, the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, wrote to all the universities to ask that they introduce ten days of paid leave for victims and survivors of domestic abuse and the main universities have since agreed to do so. Surely the Government wants to make progress rather than row back on existing provisions.

Photo of Ivana BacikIvana Bacik (Dublin Bay South, Labour)
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I had asked the Taoiseach about the high level oversight board for the zero tolerance strategy but I know he is appearing before the Joint Committee on Gender Equality, that I chair, tomorrow so we can address that further then. I am grateful to the Taoiseach for his engagement with our committee and for his engagement on the implementation of the 45 recommendations of the Citizens' Assembly on Gender Equality. I know all of us on the committee look forward to our engagement tomorrow with the Taoiseach.

I wish to raise a separate urgent matter regarding funding for Acquired Brain Injury Ireland, an organisation that provides vital supports to many survivors of brain injury. The current dormant accounts funding measures to support the employment of people with disabilities programme runs up to the end of 2022 but Acquired Brain Injury Ireland has received no formal update on what will happen to its service, particularly to the Step Ahead Plus programme, a specialist neuro service working nationwide with brain injury survivors in their return to work, education and training. Bodies like this need a commitment to multi-annual funding to ensure they can keep their highly skilled staff and crucially, to ensure brain injury survivors will retain access to vital services that enable them to return to work or access education. I am asking for a commitment that Acquired Brain Injury Ireland be guaranteed funding to continue to provide its vital service beyond the end of 2022.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Many if not most organisations advocating for people with disabilities were extremely disappointed with the budget. One of the demands they all rallied behind was that there should be a cost-of-disability premium to bring minimum payments for people with disabilities up to €350 per week, as we deemed appropriate during Covid, and that people with disability should get at least that in recognition of the huge costs of living with disability. I was at a briefing with Inclusion Ireland where some shocking facts were relayed on our lack of provision for people with disabilities. I was informed that 2,500 people are unnecessarily living in institutions and that 1,300 people below the age of 65 are living in nursing homes. I was also informed that many young people are still living with parents who are their carers. However for 1,500 of those people, their carers are over the age of 70 and for 400 of them their carers are over the age of 80, begging the question of who will care for these people when their parents pass on. I will name a few of the issues as follows. There is also a lack of therapeutic resources and supports in schools for young people with special needs. The Government has failed to seriously address all these things and to ratify the optional protocol to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. Equality is a right for people with disabilities but the Government has not matched that with budgetary measures or with policy measures generally.

Photo of Pádraig O'SullivanPádraig O'Sullivan (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to again raise with the Taoiseach the issue of early childhood care and education, ECCE-only providers. I commend the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, Deputy O’Gorman, and the Government on their interventions up to now and for the record levels of investment by the State. That said, there is still an anomaly in ECCE-only providers. Fees remain frozen, which is a good thing for parents, but capitation fees also remain frozen. More and more ECCE providers are closing or are signalling that they intend to close in the coming months. The childcare providers are broadly supportive of the State’s investment in childcare, which I previously mentioned, but the anomaly of ECCE-only providers needs to be addressed urgently.

Photo of Jennifer Murnane O'ConnorJennifer Murnane O'Connor (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I met foster mothers in Carlow-Kilkenny yesterday and what I heard was worrying. Although these foster families do an incredible job on behalf of the State, I felt the State should do more for them. Foster care allowance has not increased since 2009 and if the same children were to be put into State care the weekly cost per child would be €6,000. I heard a foster parent was told to go out and get a job to pay for specialised equipment for a child with special needs and I also heard in their voices a fear that if they were to complain the child might be removed from them. Tusla tells us money is there but when these parents came looking for money for special food, beds or school assistance there was none. If they look for occupational therapists privately because the waiting lists are so long they are told to go and seek three quotes, even if this means hauling a child across county borders and many miles away. It is long past time that these children were made a priority.

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I note that the plans for paid domestic violence leave are being strongly opposed by IBEC. IBEC has argued that employers should be allowed to ask for proof to stop any "potential abuse" of paid leave to victims of domestic violence. This position is disgraceful. Why is the Government supporting five days of leave instead of the ten days that was its previous position? The zero tolerance strategy measures are minimal when set against the epidemic of gender violence in our society. It is beyond belief that the Government is proposing that in five years' time, Ireland's refuge provision will still be below the Istanbul Convention targets. Some eight women are turned away from refuges every day in this State. On the basis of the proposals the Government has brought forward, in five years' time that number may be reduced to four.

When does zero tolerance not mean zero tolerance?

4:35 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, in regard to drug reform, Deputy Gino Kenny outlined the appalling death toll in Ireland from drug abuse. There are a number of approaches to dealing with this. I think part of the issue we have is that there tend to be stop-start initiatives. We need a continuous perseverance in communities in regard to drug traffickers and all of that, as well as in terms of giving young people supports in order that they can deal with the pressures they come under. We also need stronger supports in terms of facilities and services to help people come off a particular addiction. In addition, consideration is being given to decriminalising some offences. The Government is open to reform in regard to drug policy. We believe in a health-oriented approach as opposed to a criminal justice-oriented approach in respect of those who use drugs.

The situation in the country is very serious in terms of the impact of addiction generally on people and the degree to which it ruins people's lives. We are allocating fairly significant resources to the issue across health, justice and education. That needs to continue and persevere and I also think an area-based response can yield results as well. As I referenced earlier, we are anxious to develop the drugs task forces, which worked well in an earlier era. The issue is that some of them were discontinued when they should have been persevered with. These are facilities and frameworks that are put in place for the long haul, not the short haul, with the need for multidisciplinary teams working locally with schools, childcare providers, parents, homes and families and all the agencies working together. Where that happens, you can get good outcomes and results.

Deputy O'Reilly raised the broader issue of proof in respect of domestic violence leave. That is not Government policy and, quite frankly, it is not comprehensible how it could be put into legislation. There is no way the Government will be doing that. As I said in the Dáil some weeks ago, we have to approach these issues in a sensitive, helpful way for any person who comes forward to say, "I am a victim of domestic violence".

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I agree 100%.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Let us help the person in need, not engage in cross-examination. That is my position and I am making it absolutely clear legislation will not see any provision of that kind.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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It is very welcome to hear the Taoiseach say that. Will he comment on the leave entitlement of ten days?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will come back on that. Again, this is breaking new ground, to be fair to the Minister. It is a very good start but we will revisit it.

Deputy Bacik raised the issue of funding for Acquired Brain Injury Ireland. I will look at that. It does fantastic work and I think it needs multi-annual funding. I have visited the organisation on many occasions. I believe it should also benefit from the cost-of-living package the Minister has announced for voluntary and community organisations. My understanding is the HSE provides some funding to it on a continuous basis but I will come back to the Deputy on that.

Deputy Boyd Barrett raised the issue of the cost of disability. We provided a once-off payment in the budget in terms of the cost of living but the wider issue is the need for a more sustainable multi-annual cost-of-disability premium.

Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan has been consistent in raising the point about the ECCE-only provision being a disadvantage to other childcare providers. It is a very fair point and I will pursue it with the Minister.

The Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth has engaged on the issue raised by Deputy Murnane O'Connor and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform is open to further measures that might help. The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, announced a once-off cost-of-living payment to foster parents from now until the end of the year but more needs to be done. I take the Deputy's point that there has been no increase since 2007.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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We are over time, Taoiseach.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have dealt with the issue raised by Deputy Barry in my answer to Deputy O'Reilly's point about the leave entitlement of five days versus ten days.