Brendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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9. To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade the up-to-date position in relation to the provision of military aid to Ukraine to assist its efforts in defeating the illegal Russian invasion; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48901/22]

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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30. To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade if he will report on his attendance at a recent European Union summit on military support for Ukraine; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [49072/22]

Brendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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What assistance are we providing militarily to Ukraine? What can we do? Are we doing the optimum that we can at this time?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 and 30 together.

Russia’s appalling military aggression against Ukraine has highlighted more than ever the importance of European unity and solidarity in response to the challenges we face. I am in regular contact with my European Union counterparts, including through the Foreign Affairs Council. In this context, I attended informal meetings of EU foreign and defence ministers in Prague in August. During these meetings, EU member states agreed to launch work to define the parameters of a possible EU military Common Security and Defence Policy, CSDP, mission to provide training to Ukraine.

Ireland is supportive of the proposed mission, and sees the rationale in the EU co-ordinating bilateral training efforts that are already taking place and providing a platform to co-ordinate longer-term training in response to Ukrainian needs. Ireland is open to participation in the mission, but a decision on whether to do so will only be taken on this once work on the proposal has been finalised. The training mission will take place outside Ukraine in one or more EU member states, given the active conflict underway within Ukrainian territory.

The war on Ukraine has also seen the mobilisation of the European Peace Facility, EPF. To date, the European Union has agreed five tranches of support, amounting to €2.5 billion in military assistance for Ukraine under the EPF. The agreed support consists of €2.33 billion for lethal equipment and €170 million for non-lethal equipment, such as personal protective equipment, medical kits and fuel.

Ireland has contributed €55 million to those efforts, which is not a small amount of money. Every time €500 million is announced in a tranche, we contribute €11 million. We are playing our full part in monetary terms but we limit our financial contribution to the purchase of non-lethal equipment, such as protective equipment, helmets, fuel, winter uniforms, blankets and medical assistance - the things that soldiers need to sustain themselves. We have a very clear commitment in our programme for Government that we will support the EPF but not lethal weapons and equipment, which we do not have a lot of anyway compared with many countries.

We have also given some bilateral assistance where we shared quite a lot of military medical equipment and packs with the Ukrainian forces as well as some personal protection equipment, such as helmets.

Brendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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This is a watershed moment for European democracy. It is really important that countries like Ireland step up and make our assistance felt in Ukraine. I welcome the efforts that have been made to date. The value of the contribution that has been made is vitally important. I urge the Minister to continue those levels of assistance. I think we are into a crucial phase in this conflict. It is very important that the European Union gives its full support to the people of Ukraine who are trying to liberate their country from an illegal, highly aggressive and appalling invasion by Russia.

It is important that any military equipment that we have in this country that is nearing the end of its life should be relocated to other European neighbours to cover the displacement of aid that they are giving to Ukraine. Has that been considered?

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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I will begin by disagreeing with Deputy Griffin. I do not believe we have any traditions of militarisation in this country, certainly in an overseas capacity and I do not believe that we want any. I think the Irish people's compassion, commitment and support for Ukraine and the people of Ukraine following the illegal and horrendous invasion by the Russian state is very clear. That is felt in every town, village and city in this country where we have extended our welcome. I also fully support the commitment to non-lethal aid to Ukraine but no more than that. There is a space for the Irish State and people in diplomacy and our role in the world as peacekeepers but we need to protect that. That is very important.

I believe there is a fear that there is increasing militarisation in Ireland. I have received correspondence about an arms fair that the Minister will speak at later. Will he take some of the time he has to respond to me to explain what the purpose of that is? Are the fears of people who have contacted my office to say that he should not be involved in that event legitimate?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I will put some numbers on the record to clarify the assistance on a bilateral basis that we have provided.

Ireland has provided in-kind assistance of approximately 10 tonnes or 5,000 units of ready-to-eat meals as well as 200 units of body armour, which were shipped earlier this year from Defence Forces stock to Ukraine. Our focus has very much been on non-lethal equipment to help Ukrainian soldiers to defend themselves and feed themselves. That assistance has been positively received in Ukraine. There is an understanding of our principled position of not providing lethal weapons into conflict zones. For a start we do not have many of them but many other European countries are willing to fund that kind of equipment. We have a different role to play, even though we are playing our full part through the financial contribution but it is very much focused on the non-lethal side.

We have an industry in Ireland; it is not an arms industry. We do not export arms but we have companies that have developed capacity that can be used in military circumstances. I do not think there is anything wrong with that.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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There is.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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When our peacekeepers are in Mali, the Golan Heights, southern Lebanon or anywhere else in the world, I want them be well equipped. I want them to have modern equipment and software systems on their computers that keep them as safe as possible. I want to ensure the technology that is available internationally is also available for our people. That is not an arms industry. It is ensuring that Ireland has capacity and a transparent approach. When there are industries that we tap into and when there are technologies that we need to keep our people safe, we need to be open to looking at that.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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We are over time.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is the space we are in. Ireland will never be an arms producer or an arms exporter.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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The Minister will have a chance to come back in.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I just wanted to be clear on that.

Brendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Minister's position. We need to ensure our peacekeeping forces internationally are given the best possible opportunity to do their jobs, remain safe and come back home to their families. That should be a priority for the Government. I welcome the recent increase in funding announced in the budget and that should be at the top of the agenda.

We need to revisit the equipment that is sitting idle in this country. At a time western European democracy is being challenged so viciously and we have weaponry that is about to go out of date, that discussion needs to be had and the issue needs to be revisited. It is immoral for that weaponry to remain in warehouses in this country when there is a European democracy fighting for its very existence against a dictatorship led by a vicious evil leader. That is the reality of the situation in my eyes and that is a discussion we need to have again.

Gary Gannon (Dublin Central, Social Democrats)
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The greatest defence our peacekeepers have when they are overseas is that we have a reputation for humanitarian intervention. Our peacekeepers put themselves in harm's way to avoid conflict. We have an extraordinary tradition on that. Many of our peacekeepers have lost their lives in the name of peace. I fully agree that when our peacekeepers are overseas, they should be equipped with the best possible equipment. The Minister is speaking at an arms industry event later. Can he guarantee that those arms will simply be going to our peacekeepers overseas? Will they be used for other more nefarious, violent and aggressive purposes? If that is the case, I do not believe he should be speaking there.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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In order for military forces to be effective, they need to have equipment. We are increasing our budgets, including our capital spend, on defence, which is about increasing capacity. Deputy Gannon and others in this Chamber will rightly ask me the hard questions on the capacity gaps we have in our Defence Forces today. To protect our sovereign territory and monitor essential infrastructure, we need to increase capacity and move to level of ambition 2, which is what the Commission on the Defence Forces has essentially asked the Government to do. To do that we need to have equipment and technology and there are industries that provide that. We need to have an open and transparent discussion on who they are, where they are and how we source product. Having conferences such as the one later today is nothing more than that. I do not accept the interpretation the Deputy is putting on it that an arms industry conference is happening in Dublin later today. Plenty of companies in Ireland are providing technology, know-how and research in the military space. There is nothing wrong with that. We need to ensure that Ireland has access to modern technology to ensure we can improve our capacity and respond to the kinds of threats and challenges that our military will face in the future.

I understand Deputy Griffin's sentiments. I assure him that we do not have large stocks sitting there. We have some stocks but they are pretty limited. I do not want to allow the impression to go from here that we have significant stocks of armaments that are going out of date while Ukrainian soldiers desperately need more ammunition that we could provide to them. We have pretty tight and limited stocks in that space. They are used for training purposes and for our operations at home and overseas. We do not have the large stocks that many other countries have.

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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We do not have time for a full question but we have time to fit in one last question. Deputy Griffin is taking the question. I remind him that he will not have the full time.