Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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80. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the impact there will be on core funding for the early years sector in the event that no employment regulation order is agreed, if only one employment regulation order is agreed or if a graduate premium is not agreed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36797/22]

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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What impact would there be on core funding for the early years sector if no employment regulation order is agreed, if only one employment regulation order is agreed or if a graduate premium is not agreed?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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Core funding is designed to support a range of objectives, including the drawing up of an employment regulation order, ERO, to determine minimum rates of pay for workers as well as supporting career pathways in graduate employment.

Of the €221 million core funding budget, approximately two thirds is intended to contribute to improved pay rates across different categories of staff. This portion of the budget cannot be made available without assurances that the funding will be channelled towards achieving this intended objective. Accordingly, a precondition of the funding agreement is that core funding is contingent on EROs being in effect to cover all roles across the sector, as defined in the early years services joint labour committee, JLC, establishment order. In the event that there is no ERO, or an ERO that only covers one role in the sector, core funding cannot proceed.

If there are no EROs, the entire €150 million allocated for improved pay and conditions under core funding risks being forfeited. In the event of a single ERO that covers just one role, a substantial portion of the €138 million allocated for improved pay and conditions under core funding risks being forfeited. The value of funding forfeited will depend on the ERO agreed. In the event that there are EROs without graduate premium rates, the additional €10 million allocated for graduate premiums under core funding risks being forfeited and alternative arrangements for funding for graduates will be put in place. A return to the previous higher capitation payment is not envisaged. A failure to agree graduate premium rates will significantly undermine the development of further policy initiatives to support the employment of staff with higher levels of qualification, given the limited assurances that State funding will be channelled towards achieving this intended objective.

I am fully supportive of improved pay and conditions for this valued workforce and achieved significant investment from the Government in budget 2022 for this purpose. I urge the JLC to continue its negotiations to agree EROs for all grades in the sector, including minimum rates for graduate lead educators and graduate managers.

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister and I are probably in agreement on this matter. As he is aware, I have strong feelings on it. As we all know, those in the sector do incredible work. Many of them have degrees and are graduates. I recently visited several early years facilities. Many of the workers are going on to do a masters degree. The level of qualification of the workforce and their commitment to the sector is incredible. For a long time, I have advocated for improvement in wages, terms and conditions and the establishment of a wage scale. While I would probably have preferred the introduction of a wage scale, I support the joint labour committee and the talks. I want that to come to a successful conclusion. We definitely need to get it over the line. Many people are wondering what will happen if we get to September and there is no agreement. Where will that process go then? Will it be extended?

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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The ERO is the only game in town. It is the one mechanism available under the existing industrial relations mechanism that will ensure our fantastic childcare professionals receive the substantial additional funding the Government announced in the budget last year through better pay. The only way to guarantee that is through an ERO. No one in the sector, from either the employer or employee sides, has been able to suggest a better mechanism. My focus is on providing the money. The Government has provided the money and it is now up to the various partners to bring about those agreements on the various rates.

It is important to state that to support the workforce, we have to do more than set rates of pay. There have to be clear pathways and progression frameworks. That is why we have the workforce development plan, Nurturing Skills, which sets out additional supports and continued professional development, along with funding for that, in order that we can continue to allow childcare professionals who are on the initial entry rate to advance further in their careers.

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
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I agree 100% with that. It is frustrating for those who are working in the sector. They feel that they have been undervalued for many years. Everyone can say how great they are but their getting a pay increase is the best way of illustrating that. We want there to be a wage scale in order that people can progress. Continuous professional development is a key part of this. A point that is made regularly is that in the school system there are in-service days for teachers but there is no such provision in the early years sector. We definitely need to move to providing in-service training such as that in the early years sector.

I support the JLC talks and the employment regulation order but if they cannot get that over the line, even with the best will on the side of the workers, what will happen then? Will the funding be fully withdrawn? Will it be extended if they are halfway through the talks or progress seems to have been made? When will a decision on that be made? I am conscious that it is now July and it is hoped the process will be completed by September.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
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My focus and that of the Department is on supporting the delivery of the ERO and I do not wish to second-guess that process. I genuinely do not know of a way that we can as effectively support better pay for staff without an ERO being in place. That is why all our focus has to be on that mechanism. I welcome the Deputy's support for the ERO.

The Deputy is correct. Staff have felt undervalued. When one take account of what many of them are being paid, one can see that they are undervalued. That is certainly one of the things that has been raised with me by the childcare professionals I have met in my constituency or while travelling around the country. On the idea of having an entry rate, the ERO has set it at €13 an hour. It is more than the living wage, but it is a starting rate. There is a need for additional rates for those who have a graduate qualification or are room leaders or deputy managers. It is also about wider supports such as continued professional development, and financial support for that, as set out in the workforce development plan, Nurturing Skills.