Dáil debates

Wednesday, 6 July 2022

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Health Services

9:32 am

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I recently attended a protest by some of the families who have been affected by the fact their babies' remains were incinerated without their consent. It was held outside the gates of the Cork University Maternity Hospital, CUMH. I spoke to several of the fathers and mothers, and they are absolutely at a loss. It is worth stating, and I am sure the Minister of State will understand, that these are parents who had already suffered significant pain, significant trauma and significant loss. Some of these babies were stillborn and some died a day or two after being born due to complications. There were various different tragedies and losses, with a very particular kind of pain for those parents. We must add to that the sense of betrayal and hurt they felt after they discovered what happened to their babies' remains. That is now compounded by the fact they have not been able to get answers, despite being promised this numerous times.

This first came into the public eye in September 2021, when an “RTÉ Investigates” programme outlined that 18 families whose babies' remains had been incinerated in Europe had been contacted by CUMH. This had primarily happened around March and April 2020 and CUMH said it was confined to that period. Having said that, it appears another mother has come forward to say something similar happened in 2018.

To give an example, one family, in trying to find meaning for the loss they had suffered, had donated their baby’s remains and organs for medical research but were to get the remains back for burial. It was an enormous pain to them that they found out this had not happened and that their baby’s remains had been incinerated.

In all instances, the parents understood that the protocol that should have been in place was that they were to be contacted to give consent. We have also found out in the past week that this has potentially happened in other locations, such as the maternity hospital at University Hospital Limerick.

The report was first promised in November. Then it was promised in the spring and now we are not sure when the parents will get it. These parents deserve answers. It is two years since this happened. It is nine months since the report was first due to come out. When will the parents get the report? When will they have answers? At present, they have no sense when the report will be published. Surely the minimum they deserve is to know why this happened, to have it ensured it will never happen again and to get the truth. There should be accountability for what happened to them and the trauma they suffered on top of the trauma of pregnancy loss and the loss of their babies.

9:42 am

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this very difficult issue, which has been the subject of much discussion in the House. I express my sympathy to the families in Cork who, having experienced the tragedy of losing a beloved child, then had the difficult experience of learning that the organs of the child were disposed of without their consent. The Department is advised that the HSE, the South/South West Hospital Group, Cork University Hospital and Cork University Maternity Hospital have apologised to the bereaved families and very much regret the incident.

The HSE and the Minister are committed to ensuring there is learning across the health service to prevent such events happening again. The HSE advises that the systems analysis review being undertaken by the South/South West Hospital Group is still under way and will act on any recommendations. The review team has been engaging with the families affected. The Department of Health was informed that open disclosure occurred with the parents, and, in line with the HSE's incident management framework, the families have been encouraged to participate in the ongoing review process to ensure their experience is incorporated and there is learning and improvement from this incident.

This incident was originally advised to the Department via the patient safety communications protocol on 12 May 2020. Since this time, following requests from the Department, 18 updates have been received from the HSE, with the most recent update provided on 14 June 2022. The HSE advises that the review team is engaging legal opinion on the draft report before sending it to participants, in accordance with factual accuracy checking and fair procedures. Once this process is complete the final draft will be shared with the families for input on factual accuracy checking. The HSE advises that communication was issued to the families on 16 May advising of a delay to the anticipated time frame of mid-May for sharing the final draft report. I understand the further delay in completion of this review is very upsetting for the families affected. The Department is continuing to engage with the HSE on progress on this matter.

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State has just given a timeline of the occasions on which these parents have already been disappointed. We are none the wiser as to when this will come to pass. A total of 18 updates have been received from the HSE. All the updates said, more or less, is that the HSE did not have the report ready. That is all the parents have learned. They are still no wiser. Even if the Minister of State cannot give me a date, can he give me a sense of when it will be published? Will it be published in the third quarter of the year? Will it be published before October? Can he give me any kind of timeline for when the parents will have an answer? What is happening is really not good enough. The others concern that many have, seeing as legal advice seems to be part of the delay, is that what they will get will be heavily redacted and that even when the report is published they will not get the full truth as to what happened. Will the Minister of State give me a response on this?

I appreciate that the Minister for Health is busy, but it is a matter of regret that he does not have an opportunity to contribute to this debate. Many parents listening to the debate will be at a loss. They do not know where things will go from here. They do not know when they will have answers. They do not know where the process will lead. We could be back here at Christmas at the rate the HSE is going. It simply is not good enough. I know this goes far beyond the Minister of State but I urge him please to take this up with the Minister and the HSE and get answers for these parents. It is the least they deserve. I appeal to the Minister of State. Is there any insight he can give me as to when we will learn more? I ask for a bit of respect for the parents who have suffered so considerably.

Photo of Frank FeighanFrank Feighan (Sligo-Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I understand that the further delay in completion of the review is very upsetting for the families affected. I express my sympathy to the bereaved families. I acknowledge the distress that has been caused to them. I am cognisant of the paramount importance of dignity and respect for these parents who have experienced the loss of a child.

The Department continues to engage with the HSE on progress on this matter. It is advised that the HSE South/South West Hospital Group, Cork University Hospital and Cork University Maternity Hospital have apologised to the bereaved families and very much regret this incident. A systems analysis review of the incident is ongoing. The review team continues to have ongoing engagement with the affected families. The health services in the area where an incident occurs are responsible for ensuring that it is appropriately investigated in order that those involved can learn from what went wrong and improve services in future.

The Deputy asked for a timeline. I do not have one, but I will bring his concerns and views to the attention of the Minister to see whether we can get a timeline as quickly as possible. The Department is working on making progress on this matter. I will bring the views of the Deputy to the Minister's attention.