Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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1. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality her views on the planned reforms to GSOC, including whether she envisages an increase in funding for any new body to replace it; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [35896/22]

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I ask for the Minister's views on the planned reforms to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, GSOC. She will have seen the 2021 report it released, which mentions the sustained increase in caseload and its preparations for the expanded mandate. Does she envisage any increase in funding for any new body to replace GSOC? Will she make a statement on the matter?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this question. As he will be aware, the Policing, Security and Community Safety Bill, which has completed its pre-legislative scrutiny, will provide for a reformed and strengthened Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission in line with the recommendations of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland, which is obviously a significant body of work conducted over the past number of years.

The proposals in the Bill are comprehensive.

They address the structures, independence, remit, and processes and procedures of GSOC.

The body will have greater financial independence through its own Vote for the first time. It will have a new CEO, who will assume the responsibility of the Accounting Officer and allow the ombudsman and deputy ombudsman to focus on directing investigations and oversight work. Its remit will also be expanded to include allegations that come to light other than by way of a complaint from a member of the public. It will, for the first time, be responsible for the investigation of all complaints, other than minor service level complaints, which will be referred to An Garda Síochána for resolution. Members of An Garda Síochána will no longer investigate complaints on behalf of the new body.

The processes and procedures, described by the commission itself as cumbersome and inefficient, will be streamlined to support the timely, transparent and effective resolution of complaints and investigations. The rights of members of An Garda Síochána personnel to fair procedure and natural justice will be fully respected within the new procedures. The oversight and accountability of the body will also be strengthened in a number of ways. For example, complainants will have a right to seek a review of certain decisions. The scope of the judicial inquiry that may be undertaken into the conduct of a designated officer at present will be extended to include all officers of the ombudsman, the ombudsman and deputy ombudsman, and the policies and procedures of the office. Many of these reforms have been sought by GSOC itself and have been the subject of extensive consultation with GSOC and the Garda Commissioner. As the Deputy will be aware, they have also been the subject of detailed consideration by the Joint Committee on Justice during the pre-legislative scrutiny process. I received the committee’s report recently. We are going through that in great detail and my officials are examining its recommendations to identify what further refinements might be required to the Bill in the course of drafting to ensure this major overhaul of policing delivers a system that enhances transparency and efficiency and, above all, has the confidence of complainants, An Garda Síochána and the wider public.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for her response. The reforms to GSOC contained in the policing, security and community safety Bill were dealt with extensively during pre-legislative scrutiny. The proposed reforms were criticised by many stakeholders in the committee. Some criticised the reforms for giving GSOC too many powers, and others criticised them for not giving it enough powers. I ask the Minister for her initial thoughts on the proposed reforms. The sustained increase in the caseload has also been highlighted as an issue. We in Sinn Féin believe it is important to get police accountability right. I think we can all accept the Six Counties jurisdiction has a lot to teach us on the matter.

The powers of the ombudsman in the Bill do not exceed those necessary to conduct effective investigations of the police. I welcome what the Minister has said about members of An Garda Síochána no longer investigating other members of the organisation. It is a basic principle that members of the police service should not be investigating themselves. I note the work the Garda Commissioner has done with the anti-corruption unit. At the same time, there is a resourcing issue. That has been commented on by people within GSOC. I hope that will be dealt with by Government. There is also an ongoing lack of co-operation or collaboration on the part of middle management of An Garda Síochána. Does the Minister accept the principle of independent investigation is important? Will she ensure the resources will be put in place to deal with that?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The issue of resources is a major factor. It was explored in the pre-legislative scrutiny and was highlighted in the wider report of the Commission on the Future of Policing in Ireland. I am pleased to say GSOC has had unprecedented levels of resources in recent years, with a total allocation of €13.4 million for 2022, marking an increase of more than €2 million in comparison with 2021. At the end of June 2022, there were 149 staff assigned to GSOC, including three commissioners. That represents a very significant increase of over 21%, with 123 staff in 2021. Having met with staff and the new chairperson of GSOC recently, I know that, like other organisations, one of the biggest challenges GSOC faces is the recruitment of staff. Specialist members of staff are required for the posts. It is not just about the recruitment of staff. It is about holding on to them. That is an issue that has been raised. We have committed to providing GSOC with every resource possible to ensure it can hire the staff required. If the overall plan and the implementation of the policing, security and community safety Bill is going to work, we must ensure GSOC has the resources it needs. That includes the staff and the financing that are required. One of the biggest issues that was raised, not just by the committee but by many others who engage with GSOC, was how the reforms will speed up the complaints process. I will speak to that in my next response.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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We can see the importance of dealing with workforce planning in other Departments, such as the Department of Health. The Minister has hit the nail on the head in the question of where GSOC is going to find all the investigators it needs. Are plans in place to source them from other Commonwealth countries around the world that have similar investigative procedures? We do not want to go back to the stage where there are units within An Garda Síochána doing investigations. We do not want to go back to the practices of the past, such as those used in the Sallins mail train robbery investigations, where the individuals involved were questioned and tortured. They have now launched a petition to the UN to investigate the State's role in the process. We must challenge ourselves to ensure such incidents never again occur. There must be external scrutiny and accountability. The heads of the Garda Síochána (powers) Bill have some worrying aspects to them, including the powers to exclude lawyers. What plans are being put in place to ensure the necessary investigative staff will be recruited?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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On the issue of staffing, like any other organisation, GSOC is planning ahead and identifying the type of staff it needs. It will have to go through the same official process and channels as any other organisation to appoint members. One of the Deputy's first questions concerned the overall improvements to GSOC.

One of the issues that has been raised repeatedly is the timeliness of processes. Currently, there is a twin-track process in place. First, it has to be decided whether the investigation will be civil or criminal. A complainant has to go through an entire process. At the end of it, if it is neither one or the other, they must go back to the beginning and start again. A new mechanism will be put in place to identify, at the outset, whether it is a potential criminal or civil investigation, thereby reducing the length of the process and the impact it can have on the person who has made the complaint or the individual against whom the complaint has been made to enable them to move on or to continue in their work.

One of the biggest issues that has been raised is the time it is taking for the complaints process to conclude. The new mechanism, along with the provision of additional staff and resources, will help with that. It will ensure the process is improved overall. We all agree there needs to be a level of oversight of An Garda Síochána. What we are doing with this legislation and through these proposed reforms is to ensure a structure is in place that is transparent and sets out the procedures and process for everyone involved.

Pa Daly (Kerry, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister provide me with a date on which members of An Garda Síochána will no longer be investigating other members of the organisation?

Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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We have to introduce the legislation first. I hope to bring forward the general scheme after the summer recess.