James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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75. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the plans that are in place for the future use of the LÉ Eithne; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34198/22]

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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81. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the plans that his Department has for the proper disposal of a number of vessels from the Naval Service fleet which have come to the end of their service life and are due to be decommissioned; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34173/22]

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for being here. This question concerns the LÉ Eithne, which is a prominent ship in our Naval Service and which serves as our flagship. The vessel was built in the constituency represented by Deputy Stanton and me. I ask the Minister for an update on its future use. I would appreciate any details that he may be able to provide.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 75 and 81 together.

I accepted the recommendation of the working group on decommissioning, dated December 2021, that the decommissioning and disposal of three Naval Service ships, namely, the LÉ Eithne, P31, the LÉ Orla, P41, and the LÉ Ciara, P42, should be progressed as soon as is practicable, taking into account resourcing and the current impact of maintaining the ships.  Officials in my Department are examining options on how to dispose of the ships post decommissioning in the most efficient and effective manner and to ensure that the ships can be taken out of the Naval Service base in Haulbowline at the earliest opportunity in order to free up personnel resources and berthage space and keep the cost of maintenance at the minimum.

Dublin Port and Cork County Council have made representations to me regarding the donation of the LÉ Eithnefor use as a tourist attraction or museum piece.  In this regard, I have asked my officials to consult these bodies on their proposals and to report back to me before I finalise my approach to the disposals.  Consultations are ongoing. My officials are also exploring the option of a government-to-government transfer of the LÉ Orlaand LÉ Ciara. The Department of Foreign Affairs is providing assistance in this regard. I have not made a final decision on the method of disposal of these vessels, but I hope to finalise my approach to the disposals shortly.

There is interest in turning the LÉ Eithne into an attraction. We must explore the viability of that proposition. If that is viable, then I would like to do it, because this ship has an extraordinary history and people would like to see it being used to good effect. Regarding the other vessels, if we can ensure that they have further use in another country which may be able to use them, then we are certainly examining those options now, rather than breaking up or disposing of the ships. If they can be used in a way that ensures sensible security guarantees and so on, then we are very much open to that option. We are exploring that possibility, but the important thing is that we move these three ships on. They are taking up significant human resources that could be used on other ships now, in respect of their basic maintenance, berthage, etc. We want to make decisions on these issues over the next few weeks in order that we can progress these projects.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for the update. It is welcome to hear that an examination is under way, especially regarding the future use of the LÉ Eithne, including, perhaps, for tourist purposes within the State. It is, of course, of great historical significance. It was the last of our Naval Service ships that was constructed in Cobh in Cork Harbour. It would be fabulous to see it being retained somewhere in Cork. I do not want to start a tug of war between the constituencies of Cork South-Central and Cork East as to where the ship might be located. I would, though, love to see it remaining in our harbour for future use. It would be an important attraction to bring people along who may have an interest in joining our Defence Forces to see what life is like on board some of our naval vessels. I know that happens already, but to have a permanent fixture in place would be fantastic.

For many years, this ship gave great service to the State. This must be recognised. Many people undertook training and served in our Defence Forces on board the LÉ Eithne. It is important that we take this into consideration when examining the ship's future use. Is there any timeline for the work being undertaken? I refer specifically to the LÉ Eithne. I will leave it to my colleagues to raise the matter of the other ships. Is there any timeline in this regard concerning when a decision may be made about the LÉ Eithne?

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Not to be outdone, I am going to make a proposal as well. While Cork is well served by Haulbowline and the footprint of the Naval Service there, we will have to consider the east coast in the context of our Naval Service as well, and there would be no better location to establish a base than Arklow in my constituency. It would be a great home for the LÉ Eithnein future.

We must consider the decommissioning of these three vessels and learn from our previous attempts where we caused controversy back in 2015, or I should say that the Maltese caused some controversy when they described the LÉ Aoifeas being past its sell-by date and, essentially, as a piece of junk. Further controversy ensued in respect of how the LÉAisling was decommissioned and ultimately ended up in the hands of a Libyan warlord. After being sold by the State for a mere €110,000, the vessel was eventually sold to the individual in question for €1.3 million. In light of that, we must consider this issue seriously.

The Minister spoke about the option of a transfer to another government of two of the vessels. I ask him to elaborate on those discussions and what exactly is being examined in that regard.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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What happened with Malta in the past was that there was a comment that got quite a lot of media coverage, but that vessel became the flagship for the Maltese Navy for several years afterwards. The transfer was very successful. It is important to say this. The ship had quite a number of extra years of life and it was very useful at the time to the Maltese. They were very thankful for it. We have a close relationship with the Armed Forces of Malta in the context of joint training programmes, etc.

Several options for the disposal of the ships are being examined. One is disposal by safe and environmentally sound recycling via an EU-approved ship recycling facility. Another is sale by auction, which is sale as seen, to a private or government buyer. A third option is a government-to-government transfer or purchase of the ships. We have purchased two in-shore patrol vessels from the Royal New Zealand Navy, and that was a government-to-government deal. It is going to be very successful, and we got great value for money. When people see the vessels, they will see why that is the case. As I said, those vessels will be here early next year. The final option is that we could donate the ships to be used as a possible visitor attraction, museum or visitor centre. That is easier said than done. It involves a cost. I hope we can do it, but we must be careful that the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces do not have to continue to manage vessels. The whole idea of this exercise is to allow us to move on and look for more modern vessels. If we can use the older vessels and if they can be managed under the auspices of Dublin Port or Cork County Council as a tourist attraction, then we are certainly open to that option.

James O'Connor (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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I wholeheartedly agree with the point made that if theLÉ Eithnewere to be turned into a maritime museum that it should not be up to the Defence Forces to foot the bill. The co-operation of the Defence Forces would be more than welcome, but it is great to see that Cork County Council and that councillors on that local authority have expressed interest in this regard. Approaches have been made to me private, with people expressing an interest in the vessel in the context of Youghal and Cobh to see if those locations might be viable in the long run. I just put that point on the record.

While I am on my feet, I compliment the 60th class of new cadets for the Naval Service. I was privileged to be at my first naval ceremony recently, along with the Minister for Defence. I commend those cadets on the significant work they put in over the last two years. That must be commended in the House. I appreciate the information that the Minister has come back to me with. When a date is available for the conclusion of this work being undertaken, I ask that it be communicated to our office and to those of other Deputies with an interest in this matter. It is welcome, so I thank the Minister again.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to return to the point the Minister made about a government-to-government transfer and what is being looked at regarding the transfer of LÉ Orla and LÉ Ciara.

The Minister will be well aware of comments made by Members of the House calling for the vessels to be transferred to Ukraine. As sympathetic as I am with Ukraine and what is going on in there in terms of the illegal invasion by Russia, if that option is being looked at it would seriously undermine Ireland's position as a military neutral country. It would be very concerning if that is being looked at. Will the Minister put on record whether that is currently being looked at by him and, indeed, the Government or the Department? It would be very concerning if it were. He has previously outlined what we are doing to help people in Ukraine. I stand by and support that, but any military investment would run contrary to Ireland's military neutral position.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister have an exact date for when the LÉ Eithnewill finally be taken out of service? Which of the vessels will be designated as the flagship vessel for the Naval Service? When does the Minister expect to finalise decisions with respect to the future of the LÉ Eithne, whether it will become a floating museum, visitors' attraction or whatever?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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There has been no expression of interest from the Ukraine Government in terms of a government-to-government transfer of these vessels between Ireland and Ukraine. It simply has not come up. There has been an expression of interest from elsewhere, which we are looking at, but there is no final decision yet. If we were to share those vessels with Ukraine, I do not think it would undermine Irish neutrality. These are not war-going vessels in reality; they are patrol vessels. I do not believe that issue will likely arise because the request has not come from Ukraine.

Deputy Stanton will know the significance of the LÉ Eithne in terms of his part of the world and the Verolme dockyard - I think it was the last ship built there - so it has a lot of resonance with that part of Cork Harbour. I do not have an exact date but I will obviously inform the Deputies when I have it. We are hoping to do this in the coming weeks if we can and if not in early September. Whenever I get clear recommendations as to the viability of what either Dublin Port or Cork County Council are offering, we will be in a position to make decisions at that stage. I have to wait for an independent recommendation to come back to me on that. As much as I would like to hand the LÉ Eithneto Cork County Council, we have to pursue the best option in terms of finance.