John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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70. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the progress that has been made to date on the full implementation of the EU working time directive as it applies to the Defence Forces; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34178/22]

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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It is widely acknowledged that there is a recruitment and retention crisis in our Defence Forces. One of the main ways to address that is the full implementation of the EU working time directive. Key to that is the recording of hours worked by members of the Defence Forces and then paying them accordingly. What progress has been made in regard to the full implementation of the EU working time directive?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is a fair question. As the Deputy will be aware, the Defence Forces are currently excluded from the provisions of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997, which transposed the EU working time directive into Irish law. The Government, however, has committed to amending this Act and bringing both the Defence Forces and An Garda Síochána within the scope of its provisions where appropriate. The EU working time directive recognises the specific nature of certain military activities and allows for derogations or exemptions of such activities. Extensive work undertaken by civil and military management has determined that a high percentage of the normal everyday work of the Defence Forces is already in compliance with the EU working time directive. However, it has also been determined that there are some activities which may qualify for an exemption due to the very specific nature.

I understand that ongoing deliberations between civil and military management on the wider implementation of the EU working time directive within the Defence Forces are at an advanced stage. In fact, they are nearing conclusion. The deliberations between civil and military management are being informed by the interpretation of recent European case law on military service, the fundamental requirement to ensure that rights are afforded to serving members, and the requirement to ensure the Defence Forces can continue to fulfil their essential State functions.

As the Deputy will appreciate, these are complex matters. I am assured that the outcome of these deliberations, including with regard to possible exemptions for certain activities, will be fully aligned with the provisions of the EU working time directive and case law on these matters. Furthermore consultation with the representative associations on the outcome of the deliberations by civil and military management on the wider implementation of the EU working time directive will be undertaken through the mechanism of the working time directive conciliation and arbitration subcommittee in the very near future. My Department will thereafter engage with the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, which is the lead Department responsible for drafting any necessary amendments to the primary legislation.

I can assure the Deputy that the health and safety of personnel in the Defence Forces remains a priority for myself and the Chief of Staff and we remain fully committed to ensuring the provisions of the EU working time directive are applied throughout the Defence Forces. We are within weeks of finalising the issues in terms of what derogations should and should not apply.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. We have engaged with each other on this issue a number of times over the past year or two. While it is welcome that some progress has been made, the last time we spoke about this issue the Minister spoke about the derogation and exemptions for peacekeeping operations, overseas work and offshore patrols. While there are comprehensive deliberations and consultations going on between civil and military management, where are the conversations with the representative bodies which are key to this? While the Minister talks about derogations, etc., none of that is achievable without having consultation and agreement with the representative bodies. When was the last time the working time directive conciliation and arbitration subcommittee met to discuss this issue? Will the Minister give us an update on the last meeting?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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First, I met RACO on this and other issues last week and we had a discussion on it. However, the process that involves civil and military management needs to conclude first in terms of understanding the Chief of Staff and the General Staff's concerns around ensuring we have a functioning military and learning from international experience around what is and is not appropriate, where derogations from the working time directive are concerned, to facilitate the running of a military. I understand that process is close to concluding. Once it does, we will go into a process of consultation with the representative bodies to ensure everybody understands the basis of what is being agreed and the rationale for it. That is reasonable. Of course we will ensure the representative bodies are part of that process and we will try to get agreement then to ensure we are moving ahead on the basis of a clear understanding of how the working time directive will be fully applied across the Defence Forces. Then we obviously need to draft legislation to make that law.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. The consultation is key to this because there can be no exemptions or derogations without agreement and the associated protections for all members of the Defence Forces. I asked the Minister a specific question because key to the full implementation of the working time directive is the conciliation and arbitration subcommittee that was established in 2019. It is my understanding that committee has not met since then so when we talk about consultation it is safe to say the Minister and his Department have been lacking over a considerable period of time with regard to meaningful consultation on full implementation of the working time directive. I appreciate and welcome the fact he met RACO last week but that was part of an overall broad conversation and not specific to this issue, so there needs to be a commitment from him and Government that whatever comes from the civilian and military management, there is comprehensive agreement through negotiation with the representative bodies to ensure this is fully workable.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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This is just a sequencing issue. We need to conclude the work between civil and military management first so we actually know what we are consulting on. My understanding is that work is now very close to completion and I gave an assurance to RACO last week that then we would move to the structure around proper consultation to ensure everybody understands the rationale for all the decisions. That process will happen as soon as we can do it. I want to get on with this so we can then talk to the Tánaiste's office about drafting an amendment to the legislation to make it law. That is what we are trying to press ahead with now and I think we will do that in the months ahead.

On the legislation, I hope we will be moving ahead with the consultation within the next few weeks.