Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not like to raise issues such as this one but I am very concerned about what is going on with Inland Fisheries Ireland, in particular in regard to the Department and the CEO. The amazing thing is allegations were made of 16 uninsured vehicles, one which was in a crash and was not insured; locally arranged leasing of Aasleagh Lodge to a member of the staff as a guest house with no transparency, no process or no financial arrangements and inappropriate disbursement of Dormant Accounts Fund money to a club that did not exist at the time, but which was then created. Except in the past year, the protection crews in certain coastal areas did not do any work, resulting in the need to mobilise a mobile response unit at a considerable cost. What happened then? There was no investigation into the CEO or the Department but the Minister appointed somebody to investigate the board. To be fair to the board, it had signalled all of these problems and issues but could not get a response from the CEO. The board did everything that was asked of it. It was a marvellous board and it had a great chairman, but there were difficulties with the CEO and the Department.

As the Acting Chairman, Deputy Durkan, knows, because he is here as long as I am, the State is never investigated or prosecuted or has anything done to it. It amazes me that this is put into the statement on internal control, which is submitted on 31 March every year, that the matters of concern are then reported to the Comptroller and Auditor General and that the board instructs the CEO and executive to arrange an external investigation into these matters and submit the report to the board and the Comptroller and Auditor General. That proves the board did everything right. Why then did the Minister need to appoint somebody to investigate the board? Why does he not get somebody to investigate the CEO or the Department? The only place this goes on is in Russia with Putin. It would not happen anywhere else. It is going on in this country.

I want to ask a few questions of the Minister. Where were the auditors and when they saw these problems, what did they do about them? The Comptroller and Auditor General is preparing a report. Where is that report at this stage? Why is this not sent to the Standards in Public Office Commission? Why are they not investigating this? Maybe the Garda Síochána should be investigating it.

What does the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, do? He appoints someone to investigate the board. The board, that is there in a voluntary capacity, is a well-run board that did a great job. There have been many difficulties with the chief executives, there have been many difficulties with the Department and now we have a situation where the board is being investigated.

I am sick and tired. I am coming into this House for a long time. I saw what went on with the local authority. We saw the "RTÉ Investigates" programme. What did the public service do? Like it always does, it covered up. Nothing has been done since the "RTÉ Investigates" programme. If it was the Acting Chairman, Deputy Durkan, or if it was Deputy MacSharry or any other Deputy in this House, we would have the Standards in Public Office Commission down on us in a minute. They would not have to be even told. Where are they now? Why are they not investigating Inland Fisheries Ireland? Why are they not investigating the local authorities? Are there two laws in this country? Is there one for the public service, one for the elected representatives, one for the board members and one for the CEO? That is all I want to say for now.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Ring for raising this issue. I will answer it on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, who, due to Covid, cannot be here. I will have to go through his script. I might not be able to answer all the questions the Deputy has raised.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy Eamon Ryan was not coming anyway.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I might not be able to answer all the questions the Deputy raised but I will certainly bring back the rest of them to the Department as well.

On behalf of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, I thank the Deputy for the opportunity to, once again, set out the factual position on this issue.

At the outset, it is important to note that these matters were originally raised in Seanad Éireann on 5 May last. Subsequently, the assertions made were the subject of inaccurate media reports relating to Inland Fisheries Ireland, IFI. These reports suggested significant irregularities have been identified in the organisation, including issues in relation to the Dormant Accounts Fund, procurement, vehicle insurance, use of IFI vessels and the leasing of a property. These assertions were fully addressed on a number of occasions in both Houses setting out the detailed factual position.

The fact is that these issues have been previously considered and addressed through, inter alia, the then chairman of the board's statutory statement of internal control, external audit reviews, correspondence between IFI and the Department, and the IFI board's own assessment of these matters which the Department has accepted.

In particular, it should also be noted that the suggestion made in Seanad Éireann on 5 May 2022, and carried in various media reports, that IFI grant aided, via funding from the Dormant Accounts Fund, an angling club that "did not exist" is entirely inaccurate. IFI has confirmed that the club in question was established before funds were applied for, has a club constitution, bank account and tax clearance certificate, and is affiliated to the Irish Federation of Sea Angling Clubs.

It has also been suggested in the various media reports that the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, had appointed a senior counsel to examine these matters. The Minister wants to make clear this is inaccurate. As set out above, the Department fully accepts the former chair's and board's assurances that these issues-allegations have been addressed, are being addressed or should be entirely refuted.

The Department has appointed Mr. Conleth Bradley SC under section 18 of the Inland Fisheries Act 2010 - which section is entitled "Removal of Members from Office", members being members of the board of IFI - to carry out a review of the exercise by the board of its functions under the Act.

The focus of the section 18 review by Mr. Bradley SC is quite specific and relates to issues raised in correspondence between the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications and board members of IFI during the period 1 Feb and 27 April. It includes letters of 4 March and 7 April from the Department to the then chairman of the board, Mr. Fintan Gorman, the letter of 22 April from the then chairman to the Department, and email notifications and subsequent letters from other board members.

As part of the review and as required under section 18(4) of the Inland Fisheries Act 2010, IFI board members - including those who were members between the above dates but who have since resigned - management and personnel are required to co-operate with the review and provide assistance to Mr. Bradley SC. Engagement with all relevant persons is a matter for Mr. Bradley SC before he completes his report for the Minister.

The review does not in any way relate to the matters raised in both Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann and in subsequent media reports during May 2022.

It is important to note that these matters are addressed in audit reviews and in the statement of internal control, signed off by the chairman of the board earlier this year, and which is required to form part of IFI's annual report for 2021.

The chairman’s report on behalf of the board indicates that issues identified have been addressed, IFI assets are being appropriately managed and other allegations can be fully refuted by IFI. I reiterate that the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and his Department have fully accepted the assurances of the board in this regard.

As members of this House will be aware, annual reports and accounts, including annual statements of internal control, are prepared by all public bodies, including IFI. These documents are required to be submitted annually, as a matter of course, to the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General before being laid before both Houses.

I emphasise that the suggestion that matters already addressed in the relevant IFI statement of internal control and audit reviews have been subsequently specifically or explicitly submitted to the Comptroller and Auditor General outside of the well-established and normal process is simply untrue. IFI's normal annual submission, including the assurances on behalf of the board, to the Comptroller and Auditor General was made on 31 March last.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Meaning no disrespect, I do not accept what the Minister of State, Deputy English, has said. I accept one point.

Like many other Ministers in this Government run by the Civil Service, the Secretary Generals and officials within the Department, I reject what is in that. In fact, I will refer this to the Standing in Public Office Commission for investigation because it needs to be done. I may even send it to the Garda Síochána to get it to investigate the matter because I am not happy with the reply here tonight.

I want to put this on the record of the House tonight. The chairman and the board - every one of them - cannot be wrong. They did not just step aside because everything was perfect in the board. These were decent honourable people who were prepared to give something to this country and who wanted to do something for the inland fisheries but the Department had to be putting its oar into it. The chief executive had to be putting his oar into it. When they identified problems, these problems were never dealt with. Exactly like the reply again tonight, the problems were not dealt with or answered.

Of course, the Minister of State skipped over everything that I mentioned here in relation to the insurance, Aasleagh Lodge and inappropriate distribution of Dormant Accounts Funds. Of course, Deputy English did not answer any of these. I will have to get somebody else who will investigate it. I will have to get somebody who will look into this because this is not acceptable. This is not acceptable of State agencies and of county managers. It is not acceptable that there is no law or order for these people. The general public out there will go up the road tomorrow morning and see ten squad cars out with their posts up but when there is a crime to be committed in the middle of this city tonight, there will be nobody out there. When it is Revenue, the staff can be got.

I am really annoyed. I am angry and I am not letting this go. There was an honourable decent board there that was treated badly by the Department, and now by the Minister. When the board cried foul, the Minister investigated the board and did not investigate the CEO or what was going on.

I am disappointed with the reply tonight but I am not surprised. I was hoping the senior Minister would be here tonight. I accept he has Covid. I do not mind that but he probably would not have turned up anyway. Somebody else would be sent in to read out the public service script.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I can only apologise that the Minister is not here. I can only give Deputy Ring the script because I do not have the details. I would not have the knowledge of this to be able to give the Deputy any other answers. I tried to address some of the issues the Deputy raised as best I possibly could but, as I said, I will bring back his concerns to the Minister. The concerns are genuine and I will make sure that they are dealt with as well.

I reiterate that the current review under section 18 is not focusing on the "potential irregularities" raised by the Deputy or to a similar assertion made previously in the Oireachtas which gave rise to subsequent inaccurate media reports.

Nor does the review include other allegations, made in anonymous disclosures earlier this year, against a senior member of IFI staff that is already the subject of a separate independent internal investigation in IFI and in respect of which the relevant staff member remains on suspension. This investigation is entirely within the remit of IFI and neither the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, nor his Department has any role.

To be clear, on behalf of the Minister, the statutory provisions of section 18 are very specific, concentrated entirely on the performance of the board, and could not encompass in their scope the issues raised in both Houses - and already fully addressed in the view of the Department - or independent investigation of disclosures under way in IFI.

The focus of the review is entirely on the functioning of the board.

I can assure the Deputy that the potential matters to which he refers have been fully addressed within the normal annual control processes.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No, they have not. I want to put that on record. It is a good board. What the Minister of State is saying tonight is wrong and it will have to be corrected elsewhere.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is essential that the examination of the quite separate matter of section 18 of the Inland Fisheries Act 2010 proceeds in an independent and impartial manner without distraction and is not diverted by attempts to raise unconnected matters that have already been fully addressed. I accept that Deputy Ring holds a different view. I will pass that back to the Department. I can only work with what I have on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan. However, I will pass back his annoyance with the answer, as well as his disputing of some of the facts. I have no problem with relaying that message.