Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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99. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the number of electrical, plumbing, carpentry-joinery and bricklaying and stone-laying apprentices, respectively, waiting to progress their off-the-job training in phases 2, 4 and 6, respectively, across SOLAS and the higher education sector in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25529/22]

Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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I ask the Minister what are the number of electrical, plumbing, carpentry, joinery, bricklaying and stone-laying apprenticeships, respectively, waiting to progress off-the-job training in phases 2, 4 and 6, respectively across SOLAS and the higher education sector in tabular form. Can he make a statement on the matter? I want to know where the backlogs are in the various apprenticeship sectors and whether there are many such backlogs.

Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy McNamara for his question. I know he has raised it previously.

The backdrop to the current waiting lists for essential practical training for apprentices is reflected in the extended shutdown of on-site learning activity from March 2020. The closure of education and training facilities in response to the Covid-19 pandemic precluded access to off-the-job training. The very welcome growth in registrations has compounded these pressures. However, the education and training system is responding energetically to reduce waiting times. My Department has been advised by SOLAS that there are 8,208 apprentices waiting to access off-the-job training, of whom 7,228 are waiting for phase 2 and 980 for phases 4 and 6. It can be expected that at any one time, some apprentices will be waiting for a planned intake. The numbers currently waiting are high, however, and reflect the unprecedented circumstances from March 2020. My Department has also been advised that as of 17 May, the number of apprentices waiting for all phases of off-the-job training included: 3,616 in electrical; 1,162 in plumbing; 844 in carpentry; and 98 in bricklaying and stone-laying.

Implementation of a major response plan to address the waiting lists is well advanced. In order to introduce additional capacity, capital funding of €20 million was provided in 2020 to extend and upgrade facilities. Additional funding of €17 million has been provided to SOLAS and the Higher Education Authority, HEA, to underpin the plan to reduce backlogs. Some €6 million of this is being invested in employing additional instructors, with over 100 additional posts approved.

In light of progress in dealing with the pandemic by means of public health management, classes returned to their full intake of 14 to 16 apprentices last September. More than 8,400 apprentices - in excess of 70% of those delayed by Covid-19 - have now progressed. This includes more than 700 final-year apprentices who have been fast-tracked to complete their qualification. Craft apprentices waiting for phases 4 and 6 are expected to be cleared later this year, with the majority of phase 2 waiting lists targeted to be cleared by the end of the year.

SOLAS and the HEA are continuing to work with education and training providers, with the support of my Department, to identify further solutions that will address the waiting lists and that are fully consistent with the management of the quality, standard and safety of apprenticeship provision.

Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State. Am I correct stating that as many people are waiting now as have been cleared from the waiting list? I appreciate the efforts the Government is making, but it is still worrying. The senior Minister made many pronouncements recently about the necessity for a greater parity of esteem between people going to apprenticeships and those going into the more academic sector, with which I completely agree. If one looks at the emphasis on ensuring that there are not backlogs in the higher education sector in the practical side of medicine, dentistry, etc., compared with the waiting lists which have built up in the areas to which I referred in the original question, it does not reflect that Government priority. The Minister also announced very ambitious targets about getting new people into the trade sector. I am not sure if the Minister of State shares the ambition of the Minister. Maybe it is the case that not many people in the House share his level of ambition. The problem is that sometimes the performance of the Department he leads does not quite match up to his ambition. I am worried that that will be the case in this instance.

I welcome the ambitious targets and the announcements that the Minister of State has made. At this stage, however, we have to say that there are as many people waiting as there are those who have been cleared through the apprenticeship system. If we are going to attract those apprentices - and we all agree that we need them - we have to ensure that they can be guaranteed to get through their apprenticeships in the timeframe set out at the start and that said timeframe does not change from four to seven years in the middle.

Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. We all share the same ambitions and it is good to see that those ambitions are, in the main, being realised. The apprenticeship action plan set out a target to achieve 10,000 new apprenticeship registrations per annum by 2025. In the year 2021, a record 8,607 new apprentices were registered on the system. That is an increase of nearly 40% on the comparator year, namely, 2019, which was, as the Deputy is aware, prior to the pandemic.

On the backlog, we have the added problem, which is a good one, of a good surge of new people coming into the system. The clearance projections have fallen and risen again due to, as I just mentioned, the number of people signing up. In August 2021, there were 11,859 in the backlog. In January, that fell to 9,500. In February, it fell further to 7,700. It has risen slightly again due to the surge of new apprentices coming into the system.

Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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Again, I am slightly concerned because that sounds a bit like the Taoiseach explaining the inadequacies of our health system by saying that we are victims of our own success in that life expectancy has risen. With an increase in life expectancy, of course, there are more people who need hospital care. With the increase in the number of apprentices, there are more people who need to have their apprenticeships provided for by the State. I do not know if that did not occur to the Department. I hope it did. It still comes down to the fact that we have these waiting lists. While I appreciate that something is being done, it is fair to say that this is not enough. There are still people who are four years into a four-year apprenticeship and who are looking at having to do a further two or three years. That is both unfair and inadequate. It is not just bad for them personally but it is bad for attracting other people into apprenticeships. It is also bad for the housebuilding sector and for the trades they are going to work in because it is a supply-and-demand situation.

I appreciate that work is being done. More needs to be done. The "We are the victims of our own success" line only cuts it so far.

Niall Collins (Limerick County, Fianna Fail)
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It is important to reiterate that significant money was applied towards creating additional capacity. I have explained to the Deputy the additional number of posts that have been approved, which is more than 100. There were also other interventions in the delivery structures of phase 2 off-the-job training and the facilitation of a third intake.

Last December, there was an opt-in rapid employer assessment for phase 7. Many new changes have been brought in. We also have to be mindful, upon which I believe we will also all agree, that one has to protect the quality of the training being provided and of the whole apprenticeship system. It is challenging, but we are dealing with and making progress on it.