John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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6. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence if he is prepared to meet with representative bodies of the Defence Forces on the issue of patrol duty allowance, the Naval Service tax credit and the sea service commitment scheme given the concerns of members of the Defence Forces that to date these initiatives have not worked; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23758/22]

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Pay and conditions are key to addressing and stopping the haemorrhage of members from the Defence Forces and to trying to build a force that would be attractive for people to join. Allowances are part of the pay. There are key areas of concern with regard to particular allowances. There is the Naval Service tax credit, the sea-going service commitment scheme and the patrol duty allowance. Concerns have been raised time and again about those. What are the Minister's views? Have those concerns been addressed to the Minister? What actions will he take to address them?

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Defence (Amendment) Act 1990 and Defence Force Regulations S6 provided for the establishment of representative associations for members of the Permanent Defence Force. The associations that have since been established are RACO and PDFORRA. The conciliation and arbitration scheme for members of the Permanent Defence Force provides a formal mechanism for the determination of claims and proposals from the Permanent Defence Force representative associations relating to remuneration and conditions of service.

Officials from my Department continue to work with the representative associations in a positive and collaborative process within the conciliation and arbitration scheme to resolve issues. There is also ongoing engagement on a regular basis between the official side and the representative side on a range of items which are processed through conciliation and arbitration.  Since my appointment as Minister for Defence, I have met with RACO and PDFORRA on numerous occasions. I will be meeting both representative associations again on 1 June next, when they will have the opportunity to raise any issues of concern. I may well meet them in advance of that on other issues.

I am acutely aware of the particular difficulties faced by the Naval Service in terms of recruitment and retention issues and of how the three schemes mentioned by the Deputy are an integral part of addressing these issues. As such, I welcome the opportunity to discuss any views the representative associations may have on the operation of these schemes at future meetings. I look forward to further continued constructive engagement with the representative bodies.

The Deputy is correct that we have introduced a number of schemes. We have increased the Naval Service tax credit. There is a patrol duty allowance and we have added the sea-going service commitment scheme to that. There are approximately 106 people on the sea-going commitment scheme. It is a popular scheme and more would like to be involved in it. I can return to the details of that.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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Allowances paid to members of the Defence Forces are significantly less than those paid to members of other bodies such as customs officers and sea-fisheries patrol officers. On many occasions they are on the same operations and in the same ships, yet there is no parity. What people in the Defence Forces are seeking is parity across the board to ensure that issue is addressed.

With regard to the other schemes, only 30% of members are eligible for the commitment scheme. The Minister mentioned a figure of 106. More people want to avail of that but they are precluded from doing so because of the restrictions that have been put in place. That has seriously undermined the credibility of the scheme. That must be addressed. There is also the issue of taxation. Members of the Defence Forces are taxed in respect of many of these allowances whereas other members of the public sector are not. Again, all that people are seeking is parity. These are issues that have been highlighted time and again, but there must be action on them.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure it is fair to compare the work that customs officers do at sea with that of the Naval Service in terms of time at sea and so forth. It is quite different. However, I take the point. The truth is that it took us many months to negotiate the terms and conditions for the sea-going service commitment scheme because there was a legitimate concern in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform that if everybody could avail of this, it would just be seen as a pay increase. We were looking for agreement on this at the same time as the last public sector pay round was under discussion. These things are not straightforward. It is not in my gift, as Minister for Defence, to simply just announce a scheme and start paying people more. We have to negotiate that with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, it has to be consistent with public sector pay policy and precedents can be set and so forth, so it was in that context. It is not so much that the scheme's credibility was undermined because the conditions were clear from the outset. Certainly, many more people would like to join the scheme if possible. The question is whether we can broaden the qualification criteria to allow more people into the scheme, which is something we are examining.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister mentioned the Haddington Road agreement a number of times and also referred to the special training allowance. He said that was bought out. RACO and other representative bodies would contend that this is not the case. That is something that must be addressed because it is a major concern. These allowances were cut and unlike in other public sector areas where some allowances have been reinstated, they have not been restored for the Defence Forces. The specialised technician pay is another allowance that needs to be addressed and reinstated. If we are serious about making the Defence Forces a career path for members of the public to join, we must address all these issues.

Key to that is the right to affiliate with ICTU, and I welcome the Minister's announcement that there will be a decision next week. I hope it will be the right decision because that will be key to allowing the representative bodies to articulate in the room where these decisions are made and to ensuring their voices are heard and acted on.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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What I said to the representative bodies and the General Staff is that we would seek to provide clarity on the issue of associate membership of ICTU in the context of public sector pay talks. The Deputy might note that we are dealing with that issue well in advance of bringing the memorandum to Government on the Commission on the Defence Forces, which made a recommendation on this issue.

We have separated that issue out because we know the timelines require us to provide clarity on it and justification for whatever decision I make. I want that decision made as soon as we can possibly make it, which will be in the first few days of next week. That is the commitment I have given to the representative bodies, and I intend following through on it.

On all of these schemes, it is a matter of negotiation. My job is to get as much as I possibly can for the Defence Forces within the confines of public sector pay policy more generally. That is what I do and I will continue to do it.