Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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98. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he will raise with the Minister for Social Protection and the National Transport Authority the difficulties faced by those with free travel passes in using privately operated bus services, especially in rural areas in regions in which Bus Éireann has withdrawn or curtailed its services; if he will support the extension of free travel to all bus services licensed by the National Transport Authority regardless of whether they receive Public Service Obligation funding; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20975/22]

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We have had much discussion about rural Ireland today, but my question concerns bus services in rural areas run by private operators and how accessible they are to users of the free travel scheme. About five years ago, the National Bus and Rail Union, NBRU, warned that the significant cuts then being made to services would lead to many areas being neglected and there are now many areas where private operators do not accept free travel passes.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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The free travel scheme is a non-statutory scheme administered by the Department of Social Protection. It is available to people aged 66 years or over permanently resident in the State, and to all carers in receipt of carer's allowance. The scheme is also available to certain people with disabilities and people receiving certain welfare-type payments. The fundamental principle of the scheme, as originally envisaged, was to utilise spare capacity on public transport services which operate, in any case, with or without eligible persons, but there are also strong social benefits from providing this service to people.

As the Minister for Transport, I am responsible for policy and overall funding for public transport; however, I am not involved in the day-to-day operational matters of the public transport operators, including those related to the operation of commercial bus services, their fare structures or the acceptance of free travel passes. Furthermore, the NTA also has no direct involvement with the free travel scheme on commercial services. While all public service obligation, PSO, transport services, including rural Local Link services, provide free travel to eligible pass holders, my understanding is that only some commercial operators provide the service. Those private bus companies that have chosen to opt into the free travel scheme are reimbursed for carrying non-fare paying passengers at a discount to reflect the fares foregone nature of the scheme.

Any assessment regarding new private operators seeking to enter the scheme or extending the scheme to all bus services licensed by the NTA would ultimately be a matter for the Department of Social Protection. Such determinations would need to be cognisant of likely cost implications. Since 2019, approximately €95 million in Exchequer funding has been allocated annually to operate the free travel scheme. Any decision to potentially extend the free travel scheme to include more privately-operated commercial bus services, including those operating in rural areas, would require significant levels of additional State funding to implement and operate. This must be a matter for discussion between the Department of Social Protection and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is exactly my question. I wish to know if the Minister will raise this issue "with the Minister for Social Protection and the National Transport Authority". People in rural Ireland are facing difficulties in respect of their free travel passes not being accepted by some private bus companies. To reiterate, this is more disadvantaging of the people of rural Ireland. Those who live in our cities are likely to be able to catch a Bus Éireann bus, a Dublin Bus, a Luas or a DART and those who qualify for the free travel scheme will have their passes accepted on all those services. There are, however, chunks of rural Ireland where the services do not accept the free travel pass. The Government itself has stated a limited number of private operators accept the free travel pass. Again, there is a need for some joined-up thinking in this regard. Will the Minister raise this issue with the Department of Social Protection and the NTA and try to resolve the difficulty?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I will, but as part of an integrated assessment and modernisation update review, including how we are providing school public transport. That aspect must also be reviewed and improved. I refer as well to how our PSO system is working. The many supports in place during the Covid-19 pandemic helped us to get through those difficult times. We now need to undertake a complete review of our PSO services. We will be doing that in a context where we are also introducing many more bus services, particularly for rural Ireland, in the Connecting Ireland programme. A whole range of funding requirements is needed in that context. There is a need to encourage as many private operators as possible to provide concessionary travel for those eligible, but also to provide new services. It is about getting this right. It must also be recognised that we have introduced fare reductions for those aged under 24, and, indeed, for everyone. This is about the best use of resources to maximise public transport, especially in rural areas.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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There is a degree of discrimination here because in parts of rural Ireland people have no choice but to avail of privately-run public transport not supported by the PSO levy. Many people find they cannot access this great scheme providing free travel for people aged 66 and over, and others, as the Minister outlined, such as carers or those with disabilities, etc. The problem is they cannot access the scheme. Therefore, surely this is a form of discrimination against them. I ask the Minister to attempt to close this loophole that leads to discrimination by opening discussions with the Department of Social Protection and the NTA and considering honestly the difficulties faced by some people in rural areas of the country where it is not possible to use free travel passes on bus services. Regardless of whether they are availing of PSO funding, those operators should be made to accept the free travel passes, or some scheme should be brought in to cover the provision of free public transport for every person entitled to it.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
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I agree. In any budget discussions, ultimately the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is going to have to help cover the costs here. As I said, in any Government at any period in time there are myriad desires, to pay for childcare, to improve our education and health systems and so on, and also to improve and increase the provisions for public transport, particularly those who are dependent on it and do not have alternatives. The answer is "Yes". That has to be in the balance of also providing additional services, PSO services and fare reductions such as those we mentioned earlier on. It is getting the balance right between that mix of things. That is what we would seek to do.