Dáil debates

Thursday, 7 April 2022

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions

Low Pay Commission

10:20 am

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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13. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the status of the implementation of a living wage. [18771/22]

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Minister update us on the status of the implementation of a living wage? When will the Low Pay Commission report? Will the Minister commit to implementing all of the recommendations? In its considerations, is the commission considering the rising cost of living?

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Gould for raising this issue. It is quite timely, as it turns out. In 2021, the Low Pay Commission was asked by Tánaiste to examine and make recommendations on the best approach to achieving the commitment in the programme for Government to progress to a living wage over the lifetime of the Government. The Low Pay Commission asked researchers at Maynooth University to undertake a background research report on the concept of a living wage. Last week, the commission's report and recommendations were received. Along with officials, the Tánaiste and I will now review the commission's report and recommendations. We are considering the next steps required in the progression to a living wage, such as the publication of the commission's report, an accompanying research report and the consultation on the implementation of the commission's recommendations.

While the living wage initiative is being considered, the Government will continue to be guided by the recommendations of the Low Pay Commission with regard to any future changes in the minimum wage. The Low Pay Commission is required to submit its annual recommendations on the national minimum wage to me or the Tánaiste before the third Tuesday in July this year. We are committed to progressing to a living wage over the lifetime of this Government. In doing so, we need to recognise that many businesses have been affected by the pandemic and are also facing rising costs. We need to make sure that we proceed in a way that does not adversely affect inflation or cause jobs to be lost, either in terms of the number of people employed or the number of hours worked. We are very much committed to this, as the Deputy knows.

We are also committed to a general improvement in the terms and conditions for employees throughout the country. We recognise that there is a big demand for talent and we now have an opportunity to make our labour market more attractive to secure that talent and develop skills.

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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While it is appreciated that the Low Pay Commission is considering this, it was asked to do so on 15 April 2021, some 357 days, or a week short of a year, ago. People working in shops, hospitals, supermarkets, the public and private sector on below the living wage are waiting on the report. We need to deliver a living wage for people. The crisis caused by the rising cost of living is affecting people. A living wage needs to be delivered on. There is a dire need for urgency on this matter. The Government keeps pointing out that it cannot solve the cost of living crisis, but what is it doing to prioritise the living wage? Ensuring workers are paid a living wage is something that should be done, and could be done. Last week, Mandate called for all retail staff to be paid a living wage from entry. Does the Government support this call?

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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We have received the report of the commission. It would be wise for us to read it, go through it in detail and see what is in it before we start making comments.

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is a year later.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Apologies.

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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It has been a year. People have been waiting for a year.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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To be clear, the work is on our desk and we can complete it. There is a commitment in the programme for Government to implement it over the lifetime of the Government. I am not sure what the Deputy's party manifesto said a couple of years ago. I do not recall seeing a commitment to a living wage overnight in it, to be honest.

The approach we are taking is measured and brings together all stakeholders, with proper consultation, to determine how we can get the balance on this right. We are very much committed to it. In the meantime, there have been a number of initiatives to help with the rising cost of living affecting people. We adopted the recommendations of the Low Pay Commission on the minimum wage last summer, and they were implemented in January, with an increase of 30 cent. A range of initiatives have been announced by Government over the past couple of months, in addition to the work done in the budget, to recognise additional pressures on people and families. More commitments will be announced in the next week or two.

We recognise that there are pressures now in terms of inflation and we will deal with them. The permanent change to the living wage will involve more long-term structural changes that will have positive and negative impacts on employment, and we have to introduce them in an organised way over the next couple of years. That is what we are committed to doing. In terms of the details, the Deputy can understand that it is a positive is development, but it is important that we read the report first.

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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I do not recognise it as a positive, because people are struggling right now. The Minister of State said he is taking a measured approach, but a 30 cent increase in the minimum wage was recommended by the Low Pay Commission. I am not sure if the Minister of State has any grasp on the reality of how bad the cost of living crisis is. There are increases virtually every week in the cost of electricity, fuel and food. Everything is going up in price. A month ago the Minister, Deputy McGrath, agreed to reflect on the proposals of trade unions for an inflation response in public sector pay. Has the Minister of State or the Tánaiste met the Minister to discuss the actions they think should result from these reflection? I am not sure public servants who are struggling to heat their homes and pay their bills want debate and reflection. They want action.

I spoke on radio earlier today about the housing crisis. There is not one property in Cork city or county available within the HAP threshold. We are talking about a living wage. People cannot afford to rent properties and cannot pay their bills. They are waiting on the Government to take action, but it is not delivering.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I want to assure the Deputy and the House that I live in the real world, and it is the same world the Deputy lives in. He has to give up on the line he uses constantly. As Deputies, we are all engaged with people just the same as Deputy Gould is. We know exactly what is going on. The difference is that we are prepared to make decisions to help and not just keep talking. We are prepared to go into government to make changes to help in the short and long term. The Deputy's party chose, for whatever reason, not to do that. That is his business. The people who live in the real world-----

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State should not make comments that are not true. The Minister of State just made a statement that is not true.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The point I am making is that people who live in the real world, like us on this side of the House, act and make decisions and improvements. The minimum wage, for example, has increased from €8.65 in 2016 by more than 20% to €10.50 this year because we made changes, and we will continue to build on that. That is based on proper, evidence-based research involving all sectors in order to get an agreement by everybody.

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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Inflation alone will be 8% this year.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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It works extremely well and we will continue to make interventions.

Photo of Thomas GouldThomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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That is a Central Bank figure.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy obviously does not like people pointing out the reality that the real world wants actions, decisions and improvements, and for people to go into government and make decisions. That is what we are doing with the Low Pay Commission on a regular basis. We have taken every recommendation it has made over the past number years on board. The programme for Government contains a commitment to move to a living wage over the term of the Government. That is what we are doing. All of the work behind that has been done. The evidence has been gathered and decisions can now be made over the next few weeks and months.

Photo of Donnchadh Ó LaoghaireDonnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I also have a question on this issue that will likely not be reached. The report is on the desk of the Minister of State and I hope it can be expedited as soon as possible. A refrain I have too often heard from the Government side of the House is that work is the best way to get out of poverty. In many instances that can be true, but for it to be true across the board work has to pay adequately, pay the bills and make more sense than other decisions. If we are not going to have a living wage while fuel, rent and childcare goes beyond people's ability to pay, then it will not be true that work is the solution to people's poverty. That is a reality. A family that is renting and trying to pay for childcare will have two-thirds of their income gone out the door before they can do anything else. That is the reality that people are living with at the minute.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste has made it clear that over the past 18 months we in the Department have been very committed to improving the terms and conditions of all workers in this country, and have backed that up with legislation and changes. I understand that in most cases Sinn Féin supports that, and rightly so. We are leading with action. Likewise, the report of the Low Pay Commission on a living wage is on our desks and we can act on it in the weeks and months ahead.

To be very clear, work should always pay and we are very much committed to developing the standard and conditions of work, the employment legislation behind that and the ability to upskill and be able to guarantee jobs in the future. There has been a lot of investment through the education system, including Pathways to Work, our Department and the business community to develop and create long-term sustainable jobs that pay well.

Reference was made to the retail sector. Many in that sector are already paying above an estimated living wage, which is a positive development. Others are not doing so and we will continue to work with them on that. It is a major sector for employment that we are happy to work with and develop as it offers opportunities for sustainable careers.