Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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2. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the measures that she will take to ensure that refugees from Ukraine will be able to have access to social protection entitlements; if her Department will adapt the usual rules that would require furnishing of documentation to prove eligibility for certain payments such as medical records or training and employment records given the difficulty to obtain them from Ukraine; if she will recognise the accrual of social insurance payments in Ukraine towards the eligibility to benefits here as is the case with those coming from elsewhere in the EU and EEA; if her Department will provide information and assistance including translated material and access to interpreters to allow Ukrainian people to access payments; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [14200/22]

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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What measures will the Minister take to ensure that refugees from Ukraine will be able to have access to social protection entitlements? Will the Department adapt the usual rules that would require the furnishing of documentation to prove eligibility for certain payments such as medical records or training and employment records given the difficulty of obtaining them from Ukraine? Will she recognise the accrual of social insurance payments in Ukraine towards eligibility for benefits here as is the case with those coming from elsewhere in the EU? Will her Department provide information and assistance, including translated material and access to interpreters, to allow Ukrainians to access payments?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue. On 4 March 2022, the Council of the European Union unanimously adopted the implementing decision regarding the temporary protection directive, due to the mass influx of persons fleeing Ukraine as a consequence of the war. This means that people arriving from Ukraine have been granted the status to avail of income supports from my Department. We have an excellent record in reacting quickly and appropriately to emergency situations.

Officials from my Department and the Department of Justice are in Dublin Airport to meet with people arriving from Ukraine to ensure that temporary residence certificates and personal public service, PPS, numbers are allocated quickly and that financial supports are provided. These supports include supplementary welfare allowance, child benefit and exceptional needs payments.

Although about 90% of people arriving from Ukraine transit Dublin Airport, people also arrive at other locations. Therefore the Department has also established a number of additional dedicated centres in Dublin and Cork cities and will open a further centre in Limerick tomorrow. Community welfare officers and interpreters are available at all of these centres. Department staff are also meeting people arriving on the ferry at Rosslare port and are reaching out to visit people accommodated in hotels provided by the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth. People fleeing the war in Ukraine can also look for support at any of the Department's Intreo centres nationwide and a number of these centres are operating extended hours including Saturday opening. Information and guidance on how people can access supports is available on the Department's website in English, Ukrainian and Russian languages.

In engaging with people arriving from Ukraine, the Department's initial priority is the allocation of PPS numbers and the provision of immediate financial supports. A fast-track approach in processing these supports includes a simplified decision-making process and quick processing of PPS numbers to allow access to public services. People are eligible for financial support initially under the supplementary welfare allowance scheme but arrangements will be made over time to transfer the person to the appropriate primary social welfare payment. As part of our initial engagement we are arranging for payments such as child benefit to be made within a very short period.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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When Ukrainian refugees get work here, what happens if and when some of them lose their jobs and seek to make a regular claim for benefits and face understandable difficulties providing documentation etc.? Similarly, if they are around retirement age and wish to claim a pension, will the full State pension be provided or will their pension be based on their work record in the European Union, which would result in a very low pension despite their perhaps having worked their whole lives? The same question applies to maternity benefits. It is important that all people in the State have access to the same social welfare entitlements. We cannot have a situation where Ukrainians' status evolves into being second class in the welfare system. For that to happen would leave them more open to exploitation from unscrupulous employers etc.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. There is one thing none of us want to see and that is exploitation. I did not get a chance to answer on the EU social security co-ordination regulations the Deputy mentioned. Ukraine is not covered by those, nor does Ireland have a bilateral agreement with it on social security. However, social security contributions are not required to access social assistance payments such as supplementary welfare allowance. The first thing to say is we have the temporary protection directive, agreed at EU level, to deal with the mass influx of people fleeing Ukraine as a consequence of the war. That means people arriving from Ukraine have been granted the status to avail of income supports from my Department. They will have passed the habitual residency tests. We will assess their means at nil and we will not be looking for evidence of payslips or anything like that. We will assume they are coming here with nothing and indeed that is true of many of them. They are coming here with nothing. My Department is here to help them and we will do everything we can to ensure their transfer to Ireland is like going from home to home for them.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Last week we saw P&O Ferries sacking 800 workers and replacing them with migrant labour at £1.82 per hour. The Tánaiste has said that could not happen here within the law but the urge of unscrupulous employers to maximise profit by exploiting vulnerable workers does not know any borders. There are mushroom farms not too far from the Minister's own bailiwick that prove the case. The minimum wage is set at such a low rate that employers can exploit vulnerable workers to drive down wages while still acting within the law. I call on the trade union movement to be especially vigilant on this question and to make a special effort to unionise our new Ukrainian workers and ensure they are not exploited. That is in the interest of both the Ukrainian workers themselves and the working class as whole, which has a vested interest in maintaining and improving pay and conditions for all. If the Minister wished to comment on that I would be interested in her thoughts.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy. I know many people who pick mushrooms and people who own the businesses and in fairness to the mushroom farmers of Monaghan, I have not come across any cases where people have been exploited.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Is the Minister saying she has never come across a case-----

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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No------

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry Deputy-----

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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------of a worker being exploited on a Monaghan mushroom farm?

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has had his say within Standing Orders. He must not interrupt.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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That is incredible. It is an incredible statement.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is to continue, uninterrupted.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I will continue.

I said I have not come across a case. That is not to say it is not happening but I have not come across a case. There are opportunities for people to work in many different sectors when they come here. I have people from the IT sector and the engineering sector contacting me to say they will have work for many of the migrants who are coming. First of all, we need to help these people get settled here. Work is not the first priority - that is getting them settled. I was out at Dublin Airport and I saw how traumatised they are. I really did. We will give them the PPS number. That gives them the key. It gives them access to all the social welfare supports. The second step is we will get them on a basic supplementary payment and we will transition them then. That gives them time to decide and to think, because God knows they need that. I can assure the Deputy my Department of Social Protection is here to help the people.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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We need to look ahead a little as well.