Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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53. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if he will report on the waiting lists for craft apprenticeships and the progress in decentralising the craft apprenticeship model; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12743/22]

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister provide an update for the waiting list for the craft apprenticeships and the progress in decentralising the craft apprenticeship model? When I raised this with the Minister last month, there had been a 17% increase in the number of apprentices waiting to access off-the-job training over the preceding two months, with figures back up to just under 10,000.

10 o’clock

It will be a missed opportunity if we do not take a centre and office for apprenticeships outside Dublin and the big urban areas. In the main, apprenticeships and apprentices will be drawn from rural Ireland into construction trades and across the agricultural and possibly retail sectors.

Deputy Conway-Walsh spoke of the challenges regarding student accommodation. The last thing we need to do is pile more students into large urban centres, fuelling the fire of the housing crisis. We have an opportunity with the Minister's statement of intent in terms of apprenticeships to reconfigure and recalibrate where we direct and where we house our students. It is a huge opportunity for the Minister and for rural Ireland.

Thomas Gould (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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We all know apprenticeships have been a scandal over the last ten years since the financial crash. I welcome some of the points the Minister has made about how we are now looking at options but he gave 2021 figures of over 8,000 apprentices signed up. Does he believe that is enough? What is the figure we need to reach every year? I am talking to builders, plumbers and carpenters in small and medium family-run businesses. They are looking for support to take apprentices on, including financial support. Will the Government deal with that?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputies Flaherty and Gould. In relation to rural and provincial Ireland, I am pleased we have €430 million in capital funding to spend on further and higher education. From memory, 45% of that will go to further education. I was talking to Longford-Westmeath ETB yesterday. Capital calls are open for each ETB to come forward with projects. There is a short deadline. It is the first week of April. Let us get these projects in and start opening more apprenticeship centres around the country. Good progress has been made on one in Galway-Roscommon recently but we need much more.

To Deputy Gould, we estimate we need about 10,000 registered apprentices per year by 2025. That is what the plan commits to. We were at 8,607 at the end of 2021 so things are looking good in that regard but we cannot be complacent. The point the Deputy made on small and medium businesses is important. Until now, we have seen good and growing employment uptake in apprentices but we need to make sure it is accessible to all employers. That is why we have brought in the new employer grant offering a €2,000 payment to an employer who takes on an apprentice. I hope that will be of great use.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Conway-Walsh for raising the issue of Ballyhaunis. I will ask my officials to engage with SOLAS regarding it. A competitive call is under way now and, from memory, applications are due in by the first week of April. It will be up to the local ETBs to prioritise the projects they wish to see funded in the first competitive capital call. I will ensure that my officials and SOLAS are aware of Ballyhaunis.

The Deputy has pointed out the reduced number of apprentices who fully qualified in a year. We must, though, also be truthful about why that was. We had significant lockdowns and restrictions because of the Covid-19 pandemic. I have seen heroic work done across the sector and people trying to reduce those times now when the sector is back at full throttle. We have allocated a great deal of additional support. That would be acknowledged by SOLAS and the ETBs. We are taking on additional trainers and saying that the backlog for phases 4 and 6 will be cleared by April. We are also saying that by the end of the year, the waiting list for phase 2 will effectively be cleared, if not fully cleared. I and the Minister of State, Deputy Niall Collins, who is away on Government business tonight, will be monitoring this aspect closely and Deputy Conway-Walsh will be asking me about this issue every time we have questions too.

Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
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This is about someone taking up an apprenticeship and being able to do that programme in the set length of time of four years. I am concerned about the drop-out rate as well. Perhaps that is a figure we can look at another day. We do not want people dropping out of apprenticeships. The State has saved €55 million, mostly from apprenticeship allowances, but has reinvested only €37 million in the programme. Apprentices have not been treated with the same consideration and importance as other third level students. They are vital to our economy, across all areas, in respect of development of the regions and the opportunities that will be presented in that regard, whether in renewable energy, construction and everything else that needs to be done. I am also concerned that the backlog is being used as a justification for reforming the traditional model of craft apprenticeships. There has been a real debate regarding why it is planned to dismantle the traditional craft apprenticeship model in favour of a decentralised and industry-led approach. What is the rationale for that change? I am concerned about it.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy makes a fair point regarding the voice of the apprentice. For example, if I wish to talk to third level students, I can talk to the USI and if I wish to talk to university presidents, then I talk to the Irish University Association, the Technological Higher Education Association, THEA, etc. Who does one talk to, however, when one wishes to talk to the apprentice on the front line, other than going around apprenticeship centres, which the Deputy and I do? The new national apprenticeship alliance, which we are just establishing and have just signed off on its composition, will for the first time see apprentices have a collective voice. It is important to have a voice for apprentices that I, the Deputy and SOLAS can talk to and that can be heard. That is important.

I assure the Deputy that there is nothing to do with Covid-19 backlogs or anything else in the idea of having a new structure concerning decentralising the craft apprenticeship model. The idea is to have one structure for all our apprenticeship programmes. We have 62 of them. The crafts and trades are so important, but so too is the account technician, the people working in insurance, the farm manager and the hairdresser. We need to have one unified system. This will be done in consultation with stakeholders, with staff and with trade unions. Their voices will be heard, so there is no motive in doing this, other than to genuinely try to create a modern, fit-for-purpose and unified apprenticeship system.