Rose Conway-Walsh (Mayo, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This morning the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland, SCSI, launched a report on the construction costs of rebuilding the homes affected by pyrite and mica. I thank it for its work and acknowledge that it did so free of charge as a public service. I welcome the scrapping of the nonsense of the sliding scale, but there are many issues of concern outside the terms of reference. The Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage and the Tánaiste will know about the cost of foundations in many places. We also need clarity on the criteria for accessing option 1. As we have seen in Mayo, people are being asked for more and more information all the time. The goalposts are moving and we need clarity. Obviously, we also need the legislation to be published so people can get their lives back.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This morning the SCSI published a very significant report, one which we commissioned and said we would do. We have improved the scheme already. I said I would seek independent input into it and would publish a report, and I have done that. That report has now gone to the expert group chaired by the Paul Ford who is an eminent engineer with vast experience in this area. He will report back to me and Government next month with recommendations about how we can implement some of the measures. We will require the co-operation of the Opposition to ensure this legislation passes before the summer. While we sought a submission from Sinn Féin on the scheme, we did not receive any information from that party. We now want to move forward with an improved scheme, which we have done, so that people can get their homes and their lives back together. That is what we are committed to doing.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I wish to ask about a constituency matter, the Dean Maxwell nursing home in Roscrea. This issue has been ongoing for a long time. It is proposed that the nursing home would be closed for long-stay residents. Everyone is totally against that. This is a bedrock and essential in Roscrea. Everything has changed since the Covid pandemic. There is a significant requirement to invest in public infrastructure and nursing homes. Given that a very good proposal has been sent by Age Friendly Roscrea and given that HIQA has signed off on it for another year, I ask the Tánaiste to give the House some information on the future of this, hopefully with some positive news for the people of Roscrea that this nursing home will remain for long-stay residents along with proposals to refurbish and rebuild it.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am afraid I do not have an update on the Dean Maxwell nursing home. I sought one before coming here, but it was not available. I will have that sent directly to the Deputy.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On Monday, Fine Gael councillors on South Dublin County Council voted to dezone land owned by the council earmarked for social housing. The decision to dezone these lands went against the professional advice of the planners. Every Fine Gael councillor voted for this dezoning and they were supported by a number of Fianna Fáil councillors. This will prevent 100 badly needed social homes from being built. I do not need to remind the Tánaiste that we have a housing crisis. More than 9,000 people are living in emergency accommodation and are desperately in need of social housing. As Tánaiste and leader of Fine Gael, can he explain to the thousands of people who need housing why councillors from his party voted to dezone these lands?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not aware of that particular vote. As the Deputy knows, councillors act in a quasi-judicial manner when making decisions on their plan. I will certainly make inquiries. It would be unusual for Fine Gael to vote against or oppose housing. Quite frankly, that is more the Deputy's party's form than ours but I will certainly check it out.

Cian O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We have never voted against houses.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Oscar Traynor Road, O'Devaney Gardens-----

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I wish to ask about what the UN General Secretary, António Guterres, had to say about the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, IPCC, report. He called it "an atlas of human suffering and a damning indictment of failed climate leadership.” He warned that "As current events make all too clear, our continued reliance on fossil fuels makes the global economy and energy security vulnerable to geopolitical shocks and crises." His biggest warning was about any delay. In his report he asked us to recognise that we have a small window of opportunity to act decisively and quickly to avoid rapid closing of the windows of opportunity to secure a liveable and sustainable future. How seriously is the Government taking that warning? Can we have an urgent debate in the House on the latest IPCC report?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The report was stark, and I would welcome a debate on it in the House if that could be arranged through the Business Committee. The report probably did not get the attention it deserved because of the other world events happening at the moment. It says two things to us as a country. It reminds us not only that we need to press ahead and implement our climate action plan but also, even if we do fully implement our plan, that we share an environment with a world of 10 billion people and that many countries will not do what we will do. We also need to plan for adaption because, as the report indicates, a certain amount of climate change is now irreversible and further climate change is inevitable. We therefore need to step up our plans in implementing our climate action plan while also preparing for adaption because so much is beyond our control as a small country.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

In the programme for Government many promises were made on tackling the housing crisis. I acknowledge that some progress has been made, but we are still a long way behind, even on the Government's own targets. I have consistently raised the issue of vacant housing in many urban areas around the country. Towns such as Dundalk and Drogheda have far too many vacant houses. These vacant houses have the potential to make a real impact on the housing crisis if only the Government would put in place the necessary funding for local authorities such as Louth County Council to purchase these vacant homes and upgrade them in order that they can be added to the housing stock. When will the Government bring in the necessary legislation to enable these vacant homes to be purchased and upgraded to a level at which they could be brought back into the housing stock?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Fitzpatrick for his question. The Government is absolutely committed to tackling the scourge that is vacancy and bringing empty properties back into use. The planning regulations were changed just a couple of weeks ago to broaden further the exemption on commercial properties being converted to residential use. The Minister of State, Deputy Burke, and I will bring forward, in the context of Town Centre First and the Croí Cónaithe towns and villages fund. That will provide people with a grant to bring empty homes back into use as long as they live in and own them. Furthermore, we are bringing forward a co-ordinated compulsory purchase order scheme managed by the Housing Agency on behalf of local authorities such as Louth County Council, which had previously been quite successful in that area - other local authorities, not so much. We will co-ordinate compulsory purchase orders in respect of more than 2,500 properties. There is a particular issue in Drogheda on which we are working with the local authority, but we will bring forward our Croí Cónaithe cities fund to have brownfield site development in our cities.

Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The national HGV fleet, which comprises 24,000 articulated vehicles, facilitates 86% of the movement of goods in our economy and is a vital cog in our economy. However, the hauliers are encountering difficulties. I recently had a meeting with the Irish Road Haulage Association, IRHA, to discuss this. There is a need for the fuel rebate to be increased as in other European countries. For example, in France it is 19 cent while in Belgium it is 23.5 cent. In Ireland it is still 7.5 cent. We need to ensure that something is done about this to ensure there is no disruption to the supply chain. In addition, there needs to be incentives and direct supports for the hauliers to upgrade to Euro 6 engines. Again, that requires financial incentives. Our hauliers in Ireland are at a competitive disadvantage compared with their European counterparts. We need urgent action on this issue from the Government or it will impact the economy.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We will have to give some thought to that. The shock to our economy and to energy prices as a result of the invasion of Ukraine was not anticipated but it has happened and we have to deal with it. The Government is very aware of the impact this will have on households in the form of higher energy bills for motorists, farmers, business people and the haulage sector. We knew prices would rise over time, as they did, but I do not think anyone anticipated a further shock right after the pandemic in the way it has occurred. We will have to give that consideration over the coming days.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have been contacted by a number of patients who attend St. James's Hospital for long Covid and they advise me that the post of senior occupational therapist, OT, at the hospital's post-Covid clinic is ceasing due to funding issues and that the senior OT will no longer be part of the post-Covid clinic. This has been a really important part of the care for patients. I wrote to the CEO of St. James's, who confirmed that in the past month the hospital has received confirmation of permanent funding resourcing for the post-acute Covid clinic programme and an OT has not been resourced. The hospital awaits confirmation of permanent resourcing for the long Covid clinic, which is expected imminently. The hospital is concerned that an OT is not included in the HSE's draft long Covid model of care, published in June 2021, although that may change in the final version. Will the Tánaiste ensure that OTs are a part of Covid clinics, particularly the one in St. James's Hospital?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am afraid I do not have any information on the detail of that appointment, but I will ask my office to liaise with the Department of Health and to provide the Deputy with a written reply. I know that the HSE's national service plan published the other day provides additional funding to help patients with long Covid. I do not know how that translates into particular posts in particular hospitals, but I will ask my office to get a written reply to the Deputy.

Alan Dillon (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I seek an update on the strategic development zone at Ireland West Airport Knock as the draft Mayo county development plan is nearing finalisation. I know the Tánaiste is familiar with this designation, having visited Knock Airport on many occasions. I note that the draft county development plan and the overall development of the planning scheme is expected to deliver the following gross floor space: more than 95,000 sq. m. for commercial business and enterprise activities; more than 44,000 sq. m. for aviation, economic development and services; and 11,000 sq. m. for hotel accommodation and conference facilities. I note that the connectivity provided by the presence of the airport significantly broadens north-east Mayo's transport network capability, providing many economic and social benefits. In essence, it acts as an economic driver for the region and has a major impact on the social and economic infrastructure of the surrounding areas. What is needed next is seed funding and opportunities for capital investment. This designation has enormous potential and should not be delayed.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree that the strategic development zone, SDZ, around Ireland West Airport Knock has real potential. Perhaps we will have a chance to discuss it a little more tomorrow, when I will be in the county. We have seen the success of the zone around Shannon Airport, and I think something similar could be done around Knock. I am told that the preparation of the planning scheme for the SDZ is a function of Mayo County Council. Further to the making of the scheme, the planning authority must grant permission for any development which is consistent with the planning scheme, with no further appeal to An Bord Pleanála allowed. In January of this year the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage received a request from Mayo County Council seeking an endorsement for the inclusion of the SDZ scheme for Knock within the scope of the eligibility for European cohesion funding as part of the European Regional Development Fund, ERDF, operational programme running between now and 2027. While there is no developed proposal for ERDF funding in respect of the SDZ at present, there is initial scope for a feasibility study to set out a plan for future phased investment, which may include ERDF support. The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has offered that an official would work with Mayo County Council and the regional assembly to scope this out. That may form a future application for ERDF funding.

Brian Leddin (Limerick City, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As we can see, we have a security crisis across Europe, and an energy crisis comes with that. Last week in this House the Tánaiste set out a very positive vision for a clean energy future for Ireland and for Europe, and this is indeed an opportunity for Ireland. He said clearly that the Government wants to develop a hydrogen economy in this country. I think that will require an all-of-government response. Ireland should not be satisfied to be a follower in this exciting new development; we should take the lead. We should not leave it to the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications or the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, to which we might be inclined to leave it. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, the Department of Finance and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform are all relevant to this huge task we have. Will the Tánaiste set out, acknowledging that this is at an early stage, what he thinks the next steps are?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is right that we need a whole-of-government response to this issue. There is a real opportunity here for Ireland to move within a generation from being an energy importer to being an energy exporter using offshore wind, onshore wind and solar to produce electricity, while also using offshore wind to produce hydrogen, a dispatchable fuel that we can use to replace gas and petrol and diesel in some cases. That would give us energy security and price stability. Even if climate change were not happening, the lessons from Ukraine show us how important it is to achieve energy security and price stability.

My Department is keen to get involved, particularly in using the IDA to attract investment into hydrogen and offshore wind. We propose to set up a cross-government task force to deal with offshore wind and hydrogen. It will be led by the Department of Environment, Climate and Communications but my Department and the IDA will be very involved.

Matt Carthy (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome that the European Commission has indicated that market support for farmers under common organisation of agricultural markets, CMO, regulations can be made available when required. They are required now. Fertiliser prices have increased by up to 228% and there have been dramatic energy and feed price increases. Farmers' input costs across the board have increased. These are unsustainable costs for farmers who operate in a distorted market where the dominance of retailers and processors means primary producers do not get a fair price at the best of times.

I welcome the pig sector package announced by Government but it will not be sufficient to meet the needs of that sector. Every agriculture sector needs financial support immediately. Will the Tánaiste confirm that the Government will avail of the flexibility provided this week in a meaningful manner? Will he ensure that happens speedily and that financial supports reach farmers' bank accounts as a matter of urgency?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. As I mentioned earlier, I had a chance to meet with the six farming organisations yesterday and had a good discussion on this. While most sectors are seeing an increase in the prices farmers are getting, it is pretty much wiped out, if not entirely wiped out, by the increase of input costs, particularly when it comes to energy and fertiliser.

The Minister, Deputy McConalogue, was in Brussels this week discussing with his European partners and the Commission what we could do to provide farmers with additional financial assistance and he will work on that over the coming days. I cannot make any commitments in the House but suffice to say it is something the Minister has seized on.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I refer to the case that Julia Marciniak, Lenka Lermanova and their trade union, Unite, took to the Labour Court. I know the Tánaiste is aware of it. The Labour Court decision and related documentation show how determined the workers were and that they were effectively sacked for joining a trade union and being active therein. Every employer would not mind employees joining a trade union if they never did a thing about it.

The tips Bill in its current format allows for a service charge to be applied. This has been shown by the Labour Court recommendation to be unfair. The Tánaiste has said he will look at this but will he give a commitment that the service charge in its current format will not be in that legislation and that all gratuities intended for workers will go directly to those workers?

I know the Tánaiste has done this but will he join me in the House in congratulating those workers, wishing them well and encouraging people to join their trade union and be active therein? It is the best defence at work and an employee's voice at work.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. I join her in commending and congratulating the workers involved on taking that case. The outcome from the Labour Court is clear. We are working on amendments to the Bill. I engaged with the Attorney General on it yesterday. The difficulty is that a mandatory service charge is not a gratuity or tip. It is compulsory. If you do not pay it, the restaurateur or publican can call the gardaí. That is the fundamental difference between a mandatory service charge and a tip or gratuity. We are looking at two options to amend and improve the Bill. One is to outlaw mandatory service charges altogether; the second is to require that, if there is a mandatory service charge, it is distributed to the workers in the same way as a tip or gratuity would be. We will have a chance in the committee on Committee Stage to engage on that.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There was a horrific and despicable assault on a young member of An Garda Síochána, Padraig Scott, early last Monday morning near Blacklion which has shocked the local community. This was a serious and concerning attack involving the use of an accelerant and possibly a gun. Physical injuries were inflicted on this young garda. Sadly, there has been an increase in the number of vicious assaults on members of An Garda Síochána recently. This attack could have had serious consequences.

The Tánaiste will have heard me talk in this House on numerous occasions about the unique policing requirements of the Border region. We have a land border between two jurisdictions with all the additional demands related to policing on both sides thereof. Thankfully, there is good cross-Border policing co-operation between An Garda Síochána and the PSNI today. There is an urgent need for additional Garda resources for the former Ballyconnell Garda district which covers a large rural Border area with a dispersed population. In forthcoming allocation of Garda resources, I appeal to the Government to recognise the needs of this area and I hope the Tánaiste will support this appeal for more resources. In the past, we living in that community suffered far too much due to paramilitary thugs, criminals and murderers and we will not go back there. This criminal element needs to be eradicated quickly.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. I join him in utterly and unreservedly condemning the attack on Garda Scott in County Cavan the other day. The House is united in horror and condemnation of that attack. An attack on the Defence Forces or An Garda Síochána is an attack on all of us because it is an attack on the State.

In relation to Garda resources, we have more gardaí in Ireland than ever before and the Garda budget is larger than ever before. That does not mean we do not need to increase it further. We do. I hear what the Deputy says on the need for additional resources for his county but that is a matter for the Garda Commissioner. I will make sure the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, is made aware it was raised here today.

Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Continuing the theme of energy security and the development of renewable energy resources, it is critical that in seeking to develop our land wind energy resources, we do it in an environmentally sustainable way.

The ESB developed one of Ireland's largest wind farms in Derrybrien in the Slieve Aughty mountains of south County Galway. In 2003 there was a massive landslide associated with that development. There have been ongoing and significant environmental transgressions ever since, to the extent that since 2019 the European Commission has been fining Ireland €15,000 per day for those transgressions. We have paid a cumulative fine of €13.2 million. Recently, An Bord Pleanála refused what is essentially retrospective consent for this development. Do we intend to continue paying this fine of €15,000 per day on behalf of the ESB? Bearing in mind that An Bord Pleanála has refused consent, is this now an unauthorised development?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is a long-running saga and has been going on for far too long. I am a big fan of the ESB as a company but it has not covered itself in glory when it comes to this issue. A decision has to be made by ESB. It has to take a case to the court or demolish and remove the wind farm. It is one or the other. It is a decision for that company but it has to resolve this quickly.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Eleanor is 70 years old, is blind and lives in St. Mary's Centre - Telford - Merrion Road houses and apartments. It is the same site she lived in as a child in the St. Mary's asylum for blind girls and women, an institution named in the Ryan report and in the Residential Institutions Redress Act. As a result of a tactical liquidation by the Sisters of Charity, the institution to which we plan to turn over the national maternity hospital, she is being evicted from the housing, which was essentially leased and funded by Dublin City Council. A blind, disabled woman is being evicted by the Sisters of Charity. She does not want to leave but is under major pressure and is a vulnerable woman. This follows the loss of 200 jobs at the Caritas disability centre on the same site, where the workers only got statutory redundancy at short notice. The Sisters of Charity have sought to rezone the land and will make €50 million profit out of it. Could we have an intervention to protect Eleanor?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I ask the Deputy to give me the details concerning Eleanor. It has not been raised with me before and I will happily do whatever I can to assist in that case. I cannot comment on matters of development planning like rezoning and so on, but with regard to Eleanor's situation I will provide whatever assistance I can.

Cormac Devlin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have been contacted recently by a number of constituents who have reported that some insurance companies are asking landlords to provide details on the status of their tenants. Questions they ask include whether they in receipt of the housing assistance payment, whether they are employed, whether they are refugees and whether they are professionals.

The response to these questions by the landlords could impact on the insurance premiums. This practice strikes me as extremely discriminatory and has the potential to further distort our housing market and to make it more difficult for many individuals and families to secure much-needed rented accommodation. Is the Tánaiste aware of this practice, which seems to have spread from the UK? Will he ask the Minister for Finance, Deputy Donohoe, to contact the Central Bank of Ireland to investigate it and revert to me?

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not aware of the practice and neither is the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Deputy Darragh O'Brien. We were chatting while the Deputy was asking his question. Perhaps the Deputy will send me a short note on this issue, maybe a page or two, and I will ensure the Minister for Finance receives it.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Department of Health has confirmed to me that, since the enactment of the abortion law, the State Claims Agency has been notified of 103 adverse incidents relating to that legislation. It is an extraordinary figure. An abortion review is happening now, but I cannot get a commitment from the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, that any of those adverse incidents will be analysed in that context. In truth, the 20,000 abortions that have happened so far under this law are, individually, adverse incidents for each of those children whose lives have been taken. The Tánaiste will be aware of the horrific case in Holles Street hospital where baby Christopher was aborted after his parents were incorrectly told he was terminally ill. The HSE promised that new guidelines would be drawn up to ensure that this would never happen again. Once the tragic story fell out of the media headlines, however, those new guidelines never materialised. Where are they now?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I would think that is a Topical Issue matter, but I call the Tánaiste.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am afraid I do not know. I will make inquiries with the Minister for Health and ask him to respond directly to the Deputy regarding this issue. When it comes to any surgical procedure, there will be adverse events, no matter what the procedure, and they do not all necessarily translate as negligence or harm.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Aontú)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Baby Christopher's certainly did.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is definitely the case.

Michael Fitzmaurice (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

White diesel in Spain costs €1.55 today. In Ireland, meanwhile, the price quoted for green diesel, which goes into a tractor, is €1.40, kerosene is €1.35, white diesel is between €1.85 and €2, in some places around Dublin, and petrol has gone up to €2.05. I understand that we have reserves in Cork. Are we going to do something about this situation? I got 11 calls from bus drivers yesterday who tendered with the Department of Education to bring children to school. They are throwing their contracts back because there is no surcharge on them. Lorry drivers are also parking lorries. An explosion is about to happen in the next week or two if something is not done by the Government. I am asking about what is going to be done about this situation, whether it is impacting farmers using green diesel or people who need home heating oil. I do not want to hear about fuel allowances and everything like that. I am talking about people who do not qualify for those schemes and who are working every day. It costs €40 an hour in diesel to run a lorry. We are talking about food prices and people in this context. I want to know what the Government is going to do about this in the next week, because ferocious frustration is being experienced by the public.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. He is over time. I call the Tánaiste.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I completely understand what the Deputy is saying, as does the Government. The prices of diesel and petrol have soared in recent weeks. We saw increases as a consequence of the pandemic but we are now seeing further increases on top of that, as a result of the war in Ukraine, that had not been anticipated or predicted by anyone. We will have to respond to this. When it comes to business users, as was mentioned, they can reclaim the VAT, but they cannot reclaim the excise charge. That is one of the things we must examine and one of the things we will discuss at the ministerial meeting on Ukraine this afternoon.