Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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I raise the issue of Tesco's disgraceful treatment of its workers. On Tuesday morning, well over 100 retail security officers were called into their individual stores at 9 a.m. to be told their contracts were being unilaterally passed, that is, outsourced to a security company, OCS, which works for Tesco, within six to eight weeks. There was no engagement with the workers prior to their being called in and no engagement with their unions. The workers, some of whom have been employed by Tesco for more than 20 years, have six to eight weeks to choose between redundancy or being outsourced. Having given loyal service to Tesco, including working through two years of the pandemic, while most people were staying at home, to make sure society could eat and function, and putting their health and lives at risk in doing so, these workers should be treated as heroes and be getting pay increases and pandemic bonuses. They should not be treated like this, potentially facing an insecure future in which their terms and conditions of work are very likely to be undermined over time. We do not know whether OCS may lose its contract with Tesco in the future.

Tesco has form for treating its workers badly. The Minister of State may remember that, back in 2017, 250 of its employees were told to accept worse terms and conditions or leave. Tesco brought in a plan called "project black", drawn up by a union-busting firm, to undermine the pay and conditions of its workers and the trade union, Mandate, thereby forcing workers to go on strike. There was no need to attack those workers then and there is no need to outsource these workers now. Tesco has never justified changes of employment for its workers. It is one of the most profitable retailers in Ireland. In the first half of 2016, the Tesco group registered profits of €584 million. In 2015, the CEO was paid £4.6 million, including a £3 million bonus. The company has referred in the past to the Republic of Ireland as "Treasure Island". Two weeks ago, an article in one of the Sundays newspapers headlined "A happy Christmas for Tesco" stated that Tesco Ireland had raised its profit outlook for the second time in four months. A rise in Christmastime sales was reported, as well as a 0.2% sales increase in the quarter ending 27 November 2021. End of year results for the 2021-22 retail year are slightly above the company's €2.5 billion to €2.6 billion projection.

The race to the bottom that is the relentless campaign by some companies and multinationals to increase profits must stop. Does the Minister of State agree that Tesco should immediately withdraw this approach and its attempt to outsource jobs?

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. As I am not familiar with the particular situation to which she referred, I will comment generally on the overall situation when companies are taken over or there is a transfer of undertakings. I do not have the details of the case she raised but I certainly will get them and look into the situation. I was not aware of the company to which the Deputy was referring until she mentioned it just now.

The European Communities (Protection of Employees on Transfer of Undertakings) Regulations 2003 , often referred to as the TUPE regulations, may apply to any transfer of an undertaking, business or part of a business from one employer to another as a result of a legal transfer, including the assignment or forfeiture of a lease, or merger. I am not sure what the circumstances are in this particular case because I did not have the information the Deputy does. As I said, I will keep my answer general. In such situations, employees, in general, are protected and have rights under these regulations, which deal with the transfer of those rights to a new employer. The regulations safeguard employees' rights in situations where a transfer falls within the definition contained in the regulations. They provide that all the rights and obligations of an employer under a contract of employment, including terms inserted by collective agreements, other than pension rights, are transferred to the new employer on the transfer of the business or part thereof. The new employer must continue to observe the terms and conditions of any collective agreements until they expire or are replaced. Furthermore, an employee may not be dismissed by reason of the transfer alone. However, dismissals may take place for economic, technical or organisational reasons involving changes in the workforce.

Both the outgoing and incoming employers are obliged to inform their respective employees' representatives of, inter alia, the reasons for the transfer and the legal, social and economic implications of that transfer. Where there are no representatives, the employers must arrange for the employees to choose representatives for this purpose. The Deputy mentioned a particular union and I assume that union will be involved in this case. If not, employees should come together and appoint someone to be their representative. The affected employees must be given the above information not later than 30 days before or, in any event, in good time before, the transfer, or, in the case of the transferee, before its employees will be affected by the transfer. The Deputy referred to a period of six or seven weeks. In all these situations, there should be good communication between all parties in order that everyone knows what is going on. There should be no surprises, which is a comment I would make in general concerning the relationship between employer and employees in any business.

Where an employee considers that a breach of the regulations has occurred, a complaint may be made to an adjudication officer of the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, and appeals therefrom to the Labour Court. Regarding the case the Deputy outlined, I would rather see companies engaging with employees in these situations to work things out. I presume there is time for that to be done and I hope the employees engage with their unions and work through this in a sensible way. They have protections under Irish law. I am happy to engage further with the Deputy on the matter.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply. I am aware of the regulations regarding transfers of undertakings and have assisted workers to get their rights under that process. It is inevitable in many cases that workers with good jobs that are permanent and secure, on which they base the securing of their mortgage or the payment of their rent and so on, may lose out if they are moved to new companies. In the case of the bin collection workers, for example, who were local authority workers before moving to Greyhound in a transfer of undertakings, they were, in a matter of years, kicked out of their jobs. The company brought in other workers and locked them out because they wanted to ensure their wages stayed as they were but the employer did not want to pay that wage. That was the bottom line.

The more than 100 hundred workers in Tesco are potentially facing the same situation. The company did not even bother to meet with the unions and workers before making its decision. Instead, they were brought in individually, which is a very underhand way to intimidate workers. As a society, we should be dealing these multinational companies, which are very profitable and have no need to outsource their workers like this. We should be looking at protecting full-time employment and security for workers. We have been in a race to the bottom, which is moving workers towards part-time, insecure work. These workers are in full-time employment.

The Minister of State said he did not know my question related to the situation at Tesco. However, the question I put in referred to the fact that up to 180 retail security officers, many with long-term service, were told on Tuesday morning that Tesco is acting unilaterally to outsource their employment. The company was named in the question I submitted. We do not do enough to ensure our employment laws protect workers in these situations. I ask the Minister of State to respond to that point.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I disagree with the Deputy on that. There are quite a lot of protections under our employment laws and we expect any company, no matter what it is, to work within those laws. I gave commitments in regard to other situations last year, including that of the Debenhams workers, that we would look to see whether we can strengthen the laws in any situation where a company is being sold or bought out or where redundancies arise.

We are working on that. However, it is untrue to say that workers are not protected. Many people choose to work in Ireland because they feel they are protected. The laws are clear and are black and white.

In this situation that the Deputy outlines, on which I do not have any information, there are protections in place to protect them. It is not true to say that it is inevitable that this will go south or that it will go wrong. That is not true. I am familiar with many situations which have worked extremely well. Of course, I am familiar with other cases where it did not. However, it is wrong to always portray in here that doom and gloom is always inevitable. I do not know the situations and I will not comment on this case, but protections are there. I would imagine, as the Deputy has referenced, that a union is involved here. I would therefore presume that negotiations will be under way for the next number of weeks. I hope that those employees take advice, guidance and check out all the rules and regulations that are there to protect them.

We are proud of our labour laws in this country. We have the Workplace Relations Commission, we have the Labour Court and other areas where we can monitor those restrictions-----

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independents 4 Change)
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Employees do not-----

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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-----in general, I agree with the Deputy that all of those who are involved in the retail sector and the security sector right throughout Covid-19 stood up and provided a top-class service to this country. They were on the front line as much as anybody else. In most cases that I have seen, that has been properly recognised by their employers. I hope that that would be the case as well.

I speak in general here, because I chair the retail forum and I discuss much of this with the retail sector on a regular basis. I always talk about the importance of looking after staff regarding training, upskilling and better conditions.

The Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Varadkar, is clear on this. We are strengthening the conditions for general workers in this country regarding the minimum wage, aspirations to a living wage, sick pay legislation and in other areas, including the extra bank holiday. This is because we are about strengthening the conditions, about making sure that work always pays and about trying to improve that every time we go along. It is therefore not a case that Ireland is behind on employment laws, because we are not.