Dáil debates

Thursday, 10 February 2022

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Disadvantaged Status

3:35 pm

Photo of Kathleen FunchionKathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My question is in regard to DEIS status for Scoil Mhuire Lourdes, which is a girls' school in Tullow, County Carlow, its application for additional accommodation to expand facilities to support its learning, the reason it does not have an autism spectrum disorder, ASD, class and what measures are proposed to rectify this problem.

I had a meeting recently with the principal of this school. It does not have DEIS status but there is an urgent need for it to be given that status. I would welcome some feedback from the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan, in regard to how the school should go about securing it. I am not sure if the Minister of State is familiar with the Tullow area. It is an area of high deprivation. It is important that consideration be given to this school being awarded DEIS status.

In regard to the ASD class, I was surprised to learn this school wants to have an ASD class. It should be commended on that, but its application in that regard has not been granted, apparently because it is deemed not to be a need in the area. There very much is a need in the area for an ASD class. I will give some details in regard to the school. There are children within the school from families where one or two of the parents are unemployed, and 33% of the families are headed up by lone parents. As we know, there are issues of poverty within lone parent families. It is important to emphasise this is an all-girls school. Some 35% of the families are being supported by the school completion programme, which is an excellent programme and one I regularly try to speak about in this House. There is a high level of need within this school.

The principal is an excellent advocate for the school. She has been pushing hard for all of this and she is really passionate about it. In regard to the ASD class, in one family where there is a lone parent, one child is attending this school but the other child needs to go to an ASD class and will have to travel outside of Tullow to access it. During a meeting we had with that lone parent, she made the point that, in terms of climate, the green agenda and people changing their ways in regard to transport, it makes no sense for her child to have to travel by bus to another school because the facilities are not in place in this school to accommodate her child. It is important we get this right.

The condition of the school is an issue. DEIS status is also an issue.

3:45 pm

Photo of Josepha MadiganJosepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy for her question. I am taking this question on behalf of the Minister for Education, Deputy Foley. My understanding is that more than 800 schools in this country already have DEIS status. As the Deputy knows, the entire DEIS model is under review at present. Funding was almost doubled to €32 million in the budget from the €18 million available last year. That is on top of the €150 million that was given to the Department to make sure there are supports for the DEIS programme. It is important we look after all children going to school, but disadvantaged children in particular as well as children with additional needs, who fall under my remit.

I am aware Scoil Mhuire Lourdes girls' school has applied for DEIS status and I also understand the technical aspects of the refinement of the identification model is being looked at. A lot of consultation is ongoing with our education partners, national representative bodies and unions. It is important to note that schools are not required to apply for inclusion in the DEIS programme because all schools will automatically be considered under the refined model when it is applied.

The Deputy also asked about additional accommodation. I am aware there has been an application from that school for additional accommodation under the additional school accommodation, ASA, scheme. From listening to the Deputy's comments, I imagine that is probably because they are looking for a special class. I know there are approximately 40 special classes in the general area of Carlow. In fact, one of those is a new class that opened just this year. The National Council for Special Education, NCSE, is telling me that, at present, there is sufficient capacity to cater for all children with additional needs. I agree with the Deputy's comments about commending Scoil Mhuire Lourdes girls' school for wanting to open a special class in the first instance. It is not always the case, and I am always grateful and welcoming to schools that take the initiative, want to take an inclusive approach to education and have that culture and ethos within the school to welcome all children with additional needs. I know the application that has been put in to modernise and consider new accommodation is being assessed. On completion of that assessment process, the school authority will, of course, be contacted directly with a decision.

There is also the minor works grant, which is payable to all primary schools. It gives schools flexibility in making improvements to the physical infrastructure of school buildings. There are also enhanced capitation grants that are given to schools, particularly where they open a special class. Some schools even open two special classes. They are given grants of €6,500 and €7,000 for furniture and ICT, respectively. That is important.

The Deputy mentioned transport in particular. Education is a right for all children, including those with additional needs. It is not always possible to provide that education in their own locality, but certainly the NCSE and the Department endeavour to do so.

On school transport, I know there is now an onus on the public sector to provide electric vehicles, so many of the buses will be carbon-free over the next period of time. There are targets for the green agenda the Deputy mentioned.

Photo of Kathleen FunchionKathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I welcome what the Minister of State has said about additional funding for the DEIS scheme. That is welcome. However, it is frustrating for a school that still falls outside the scheme, especially when it relies so much on programmes such as the school completion programme and various other programmes. I am glad the Minister of State acknowledged the school in question is working to try to be inclusive. I agree that is what we want our schools to be. If we are being honest, not all schools take that approach and Scoil Mhuire Lourdes girls' school should be commended on that. I am glad the Minister of State mentioned that.

Could we get some information from the NCSE? It says it feels there is an adequate level of special classes in the area but Scoil Mhuire Lourdes girls' school would very much argue against that. It would point to growing demand in the area.

Some people might have a difficulty with the following but it is a point I wish to make. This is an all-girls school. We have recently had many discussions in the Chamber about gender and sending out the right message. We have very young girls, from junior infants up to sixth class, being taught in substandard accommodation and not getting the supports they should. We are failing in that regard. There is an argument for Scoil Mhuire Lourdes girls' school to get DEIS status. If there are any updates on the review, they could be provided to the school. I appreciate the Minister of State will not have it now but could we get some information from the NCSE as to the rationale behind its decision? I would think that is open to argument.

The reason I mentioned climate change is that the argument the school is making is that it is right there on the doorstep of the Tullow community and it would save people travelling if the school had an autism spectrum disorder class.

Photo of Josepha MadiganJosepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

All schools that did so last year will automatically provide special educational needs facilities, which will be important going forward. That is just a general point around the provision of placements for children with additional needs.

I again commend Scoil Mhuire Lourdes girls' school on volunteering to open a special class and, as I said, there are enhanced capitation rates for that. I do, however, understand from the NCSE that at present there is sufficient capacity for these children in other schools. I do accept the point the Deputy is making that it is often in the best interests of children to attend a school in their own locality, and we should endeavour to facilitate that where possible. This particular school has already put in an application for extra accommodation and no doubt that will be taken into account when the matter is looked at.

The criteria for the new DEIS identification model is being worked out at present. We will obviously look at socioeconomic factors and the fact it is an all-girls school. I heard what the Deputy said about there being a lot of lone parents in the area and the many other challenges they endure daily. All of that will be taken into account. As I said, there are already 800 or more schools in the country with DEIS status but every school will be up for review again. As I said, the school does not need to apply and the situation will be looked at. That the Deputy has brought it up as a Topical Issue matter will be brought to the attention of the Department. It is aware the Deputy has raised the question and that will hone their minds on the matter. If I have any further information from the NCSE, I will let the Deputy know but that is the status at the moment. I hope the application will be successful.